What method is best to determine floor levels from defined point

[oranjeboom]

Background:

 

• 2 new extensions
• old bungalow with slab removed, dug down to 500mm, compacted hardcore down in most places
• New concrete slab to be laid with UFH (over 300mm insulation) - no screed layer.
• First door in which acts as my 'datum'

 

Now that I have main door installed with low level threshold, I can proceed to determine my FFL throughout the house. I had previously determined levels with one of these self=leveling cubes: http://www.screwfix.com/p/stanley-cubix-self-levelling-laser-level/69712. To be sure the levels were correct I also bought one of these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PENTAX-LASER-TILTING-LEVEL-TL-1-SURVEYING-/141961706661 (but from a local UK specialist, not ebay) which seemed like a decent bit of kit until i first tried it and it's clear it needs a service as it must have been used as a demo piece at best as the laser point does not zero in less than about 70mm from a distance of 5metres!! So i resorted back to the Stanely cube but now each time I carefully check my levels they end up being different. So have zero confidence in using that now. It's more to assist with shelving and tiling but as it's self levelling it did originally give me consistent floor levels....up to now. So prior to putting in my 300mm of insulation I need to go round the house again and re-check levels from my 'datum' (low threshold door).

 

I've now got my eye on something like this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/131976544466

 

Would that do the job? I could hire, but the whole flooring process will take me a while with many rooms to compact the hardcore (where it still need a bit of persuasion), lay down the EPS etc. So don't want to keep hiring lasers over a few weeks.

 

I did contemplate getting out the old spirit level and going round like that, bit by bit...but can't see getting across 20m from one end of house to the other accurately!!

 

TIA!!

[Simplysimon]

you could always go old school, http://www.wikihow.com/Use-a-Water-Level   and as they saw, water always find its own level.

 

cheers

simon

[PeterW]

+1 to a water level..! And some food colouring...

[ProDave]

I used a dewalt laser level for all my setting out. Even outdoors (at dusk).  Mine is a laser line level so as well as projecting a horizontal lint, it will also project a vertical line. Damn handy bit of kit.
 

[Nickfromwales]

17 hours ago, oranjeboom said:

Background:

 

• 2 new extensions
• old bungalow with slab removed, dug down to 500mm, compacted hardcore down in most places
• New concrete slab to be laid with UFH (over 300mm insulation) - no screed layer.
• First door in which acts as my 'datum'

 

Now that I have main door installed with low level threshold, I can proceed to determine my FFL throughout the house. I had previously determined levels with one of these self=leveling cubes: http://www.screwfix.com/p/stanley-cubix-self-levelling-laser-level/69712. To be sure the levels were correct I also bought one of these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PENTAX-LASER-TILTING-LEVEL-TL-1-SURVEYING-/141961706661 (but from a local UK specialist, not ebay) which seemed like a decent bit of kit until i first tried it and it's clear it needs a service as it must have been used as a demo piece at best as the laser point does not zero in less than about 70mm from a distance of 5metres!! So i resorted back to the Stanely cube but now each time I carefully check my levels they end up being different. So have zero confidence in using that now. It's more to assist with shelving and tiling but as it's self levelling it did originally give me consistent floor levels....up to now. So prior to putting in my 300mm of insulation I need to go round the house again and re-check levels from my 'datum' (low threshold door).

 

I've now got my eye on something like this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/131976544466

 

Would that do the job? I could hire, but the whole flooring process will take me a while with many rooms to compact the hardcore (where it still need a bit of persuasion), lay down the EPS etc. So don't want to keep hiring lasers over a few weeks.

 

I did contemplate getting out the old spirit level and going round like that, bit by bit...but can't see getting across 20m from one end of house to the other accurately!!

 

TIA!!

 

That seems to retail around the £120-130 mark. Tbh, for a bit more money I'd consider this one instead. I borrowed one of these off my mate when my Bosch was out of action and I thought, for the money, it was a very robust and versatile unit. 

The green Bosch stuff is the DIY range, with the blue being the proffesional range. Also, you may want to check out the Bosch equivalent to the Dewalt  which is also around the £150 mark. If I had to choose, it would be the Bosch.

I do a lot of tiling and stud work, so I went with this beauty Only downfall is it LOVES the batteries. 

A water level is good for when you don't have line of sight, but it doesn't have the cool red laser lines which make you think your in an illegal rave.  ?

Spend the other couple of tenners and go for a professional item.   

 

 

 

[ProDave]

Whatever make you choose, definitely go for the cross line type. It will get your downlighters in a straight line and all sorts of other useful things.  The rotary one is a one trick pony, it will give you a horizontal line all the way round, but ONLY a horizontal line.
 

[Nickfromwales]

I think that little green Bosch may have a vertical too? 

[JIH]

12 hours ago, ProDave said:

I used a dewalt laser level for all my setting out. Even outdoors (at dusk).  Mine is a laser line level so as well as projecting a horizontal lint, it will also project a vertical line. Damn handy bit of kit.
 

+1 to this, very pleased with mine

[Nickfromwales]

54 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

I think that little green Bosch may have a vertical too? 

Nope. She's deffo a one trick pony. . 

Go for the cross line Dewalt or Bosch. Both are good units. My mates dewalt one has taken an absolute pounding over the last 4 years or so he's owned it and it's still going strong.  

[TerryE]

Can I raise a dissenting POV?   Surely there are two different answers here:

• What's the best way if you are a professional and need to do this on a routine basis?
• What's the best way if you are a self builder and only doing it once?

In the first case, you really need a tool which is accurate and quick; no doubt about that. In the second case you only need to be accurate, but is it really worth spending an extra £100 or so to save yourself an hour's fiddling around getting it right?

 

I think not, but then again I am not cash rich at the moment.  Though if you haven't any accurate laser level, then ~ £100 seems a reasonable price.

 

What you need at a minimum is a way of establishing a set of datums, one per room that establish a common level throughout the house, and preferably each near the door connecting to the common hall / access.  There are loads of ways to do this. The water level works really well (I did a blog post about this). So does a Dumpy if you have one, or any kind of calibrated laser level.  If you are using levels then IMO it is important to chain from room to room at the doorways.  If you want to double check then back chain from the extreme back to your primary reference.  This will throw any systematic errors in your level. 

 

Do this a fixed amount above FFL and mark each datum well so they don't get lost in subsequent building works (e.g. screw or bond a bit of wood to the wall and cut a notch in it and mark it with a sharpie.)  Then if you do need to redo any room you only need to measure down the fixed amount from the datum to reset the level in that room and you can be confident that it will still be correct.

 

And then you need to establish reference levels around each room, and here pretty much any type of calibrated laser level will do the job.  The expensive ones will only save you 10 mins extra setup per room.

 

And I wouldn't worry too much about a few mm systematic error across the chain, because if you think that the builders or you will end up laying the FFL exactly  to that level then you are mistaken. Even if they use a decent self levelling cement to finish off each room, do you think that they are going to use the exact amount of cement to hit the level?  They make it up, pour it in and give it a float and leave it to find its level, and if they are good then you'll still end up using the door thresh or carpet bar to hide the hopefully few mm offset between rooms.  In my current house some of our "level" floor slabs are about 1cm out across the room.

[Nickfromwales]

Hearing that makes me a very happy man, in that I've got a screeder who leaves my floors so flat I don't need tile adhesive they just lay there flat. Paint it green and rack up the snooker balls. 

He works away so if anyone wants a top notch screeder then I'll give you my mans details. A couple on here already have . 

 

Datum points are a great help, and once on can be left for the duration. It also means you haven't got to leave a delicate, expensive laser set up, to either munch the batteries or get damaged ( or nicked ). 

Professional units take a beating, diy ones just don't seem to stay accurate after a couple of knocks / dust ingress. False economy imo as the job you want them to do is usually a very critical and expensive one.    

Also, once you own one you'll see just how much you end up using it. Professional units are far easier to resell too. 

[Steptoe]

6 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

Hearing that makes me a very happy man, in that I've got a screeder who leaves my floors so flat I don't need tile adhesive they just lay there flat. Paint it green and rack up the snooker balls. 

He works away so if anyone wants a top notch screeder then I'll give you my mans details. A couple on here already have . 

 

Datum points are a great help, and once on can be left for the duration. It also means you haven't got to leave a delicate, expensive laser set up, to either munch the batteries or get damaged ( or nicked ). 

Professional units take a beating, diy ones just don't seem to stay accurate after a couple of knocks / dust ingress. False economy imo as the job you want them to do is usually a very critical and expensive one.    

Also, once you own one you'll see just how much you end up using it. Professional units are far easier to resell too. 

 

oh yes, I'd wholeheartedly agree,

I was working away and found myself in need of a level, I'd left mine at home, a visit to local large diy chain saw me leave with a rather shiney looking Stanley laser level for just over a tenner, I didnt expect too much from it, I was surprised,

it was actually quite accurate, until it got knocked off the level stack I'd built on the worktop to level out my sockets,

so, it fell a grand height of 150mm, was about 2" out over 3m after that,  

[oranjeboom]

On 16/01/2017 at 21:54, PeterW said:

+1 to a water level..! And some food colouring...

 

On 16/01/2017 at 21:16, Simplysimon said:

you could always go old school, http://www.wikihow.com/Use-a-Water-Level   and as they saw, water always find its own level.

 

cheers

simon

 

I did consider that...but I have reservations being a one-man-show and also the fact that I will need 20m worth of tubing and then also drag it thru into smaller rooms, coil it all up when length is too long, stand and damage the pipe etc. Also checking insulation levels would be a bit cumbersome, so decided for an 'easier' but more $$$ approach.

 

Thanks for the suggestions above, will look at options and pricing now.

On 17/01/2017 at 16:12, Nickfromwales said:

Hearing that makes me a very happy man, in that I've got a screeder who leaves my floors so flat I don't need tile adhesive they just lay there flat. Paint it green and rack up the snooker balls. 

He works away so if anyone wants a top notch screeder then I'll give you my mans details. A couple on here already have .

 

@Nickfromwales Could you PM me his details Nick? Probably a bit out of the way down here for him here in Kent, but if he's 'in the area' on any other jobs....  local trades are a real PIA I find.

[Nickfromwales]

No probs. Pm to follow.