Nick Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Afternooon All. I'm Nick - me and my fiance are planning a build somewhere in the East/South-East of the country (where exactly pretty much depends on finding an affordable plot) in order to create a huge double-height studio space as part of our home. We've just started the process of budgeting and putting together our design brief. We're both hugely excited about the possibilities and keen to learn more about the practical side before we get going in earnest. Have already found some great advice here from reading through old threads and I'm sure I'll be starting my own threads and pestering you all for input on a hundred different things before long so apologies in advance for that! I work in the glazing industry at a company that manufactures, designs & installs just about every type of glazing you can imagine (standard trade, all kinds of doors, curtain walling, minimal, structural, e.t.c.). Currently a director but I've done just about every job there is along the way. As a result I'd say I'm pretty well versed in most things a homebuilder might come up against glazing-wise and I'll be more than happy to give some technical or cost-engineering input to anyone who might need it if you send a message or point me towards your thread. Nice to meet you all. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 4 minutes ago, Nick said: I'm Nick Oh god, not another one! Just kidding (if you've read around, you know the @Nickfromwales I'm talking about). Welcome to the forum and thanks for your kind offer to contribute. Always lots of questions about glass! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Well @Nick, tell me will you, why I can't source British decent triple glazing? Oh, btw, welcome! Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alphonsox Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Welcome and good luck finding a plot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 Thanks Jack. You'll see that I have the original "Nick" username and am therefore at least 1 letter more "Nick" than any other imposters that may be around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 (edited) Hi Nick, you may have joined us in the "Nick" of time as I need a quote for wooden widows for my self build ?Are you able to do this?, you can PM me your details if you are, however I don't think there is anything wrong about telling us about your company as long as it meets the forum rules about being fair. John p.s. Welcome Edited January 16, 2017 by joe90 Typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 Ian, I can but I promise you you'll find it very boring Ultimately the British profile companies always lag behind the German and Scandinavian countries by at least a few years. Their building regs are more stringent and their glazing manufacturers tend to be larger, working with more automation and producing greater volumes. British glazing companies are generally small, with a workforce that have learned from the previous generation without much formal training at all, and are therefore very resistant to change. Real changes only get pushed through by updates to the building regs but even they have to water down their requirements as the bulk of the UK fenestration industry just isn't capable of supplying and installing products to the standards of our counterparts on the mainland. I'm lucky to work at one of the few manufacturers in the country that do make attempts to innovate and push quality but it is an uphill struggle. The existing UK housing stock is so poor that putting triple glazed SI windows in will never pay dividends and we have so little land for new build that developers are only interested in building to the minimum spec acceptable. What attracts me (and I imagine a lot of people) to self-build is that it's a rare opportunity to build something properly with an eye on long-term cost effectiveness instead of just quick profit. Oh, and thanks for the welcome ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 24 minutes ago, Alphonsox said: Welcome and good luck finding a plot. Thanks Alphonso Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Hi Nick and welcome ..! I'm sure there will be lots of questions along the way - both from us and from you ..! Where are you plot hunting out of interest ..?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 Thanks Joe. As much as I'd love to help, unfortunately wooden windows are the one type we don't currently fabricate. It is a whole other manufacturing setup compared to Aluminium, uPVC, Steel, Bronze, e.t.c. and very hard to compete price-wise with the Eastern Europeans and their infinite forests. Would also depend on where you are located - we are based in London & Herts mostly servicing the lower half of the UK so may not be cost effective for someone building up North & vice-versa. With regard to discussing the company specifically on the forum, it's probably best I don't, forum rules aside, as I don't want everyone on here to think that I've just joined up to promote myself. Plus "you" self builders are the most nightmarish customers ever and as I'm Technical, your wacky schemes and sketches will only end up on my desk tomorrow morning If anyone does need help getting prices on a trade basis I'd guess the best thing to do would be to message me privately and as long as it's within the rules (??) I'll do my best to assist. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 22 minutes ago, Nick said: Ian, I can but I promise you you'll find it very boring Ultimately the British profile companies always lag behind the German and Scandinavian countries by at least a few years. Their building regs are more stringent and their glazing manufacturers tend to be larger, working with more automation and producing greater volumes. British glazing companies are generally small, with a workforce that have learned from the previous generation without much formal training at all, and are therefore very resistant to change. [...] Well, now I've got the story from the horse's mouth .... makes depressing reading, though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 12 minutes ago, PeterW said: Hi Nick and welcome ..! I'm sure there will be lots of questions along the way - both from us and from you ..! Where are you plot hunting out of interest ..?? Thanks Peter, Truth of the matter is I'm not sure yet - still very new to this. Would love somewhere in North London, Herts, Berks, e.t.c. near to where I grew up but the land prices seem out of my reach. Then again, I'm still doing and re-doing budgets and cost breakdowns to see just how much a house we would realistically be happy with will cost to build, so I can figure out how much I can afford to spend on land. Bit of a chicken and egg situation. Is it the done thing to (roughly) design a house and then try to find a plot of land to build it on or does everyone go out and find land and then build the best they can on it? I think ultimately If getting a house that we love means looking further out above the green belt then that's what we'll have to do. Motorway / Rail links would still be handy though. If you have any suggestions for anywhere along the M1 North of Watford that might actually work for a reasonably affordable build with modern construction methods I'd love to hear them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Welcome Nick Are building standards (official, not practice), really so different in the EU. I have not looked recently, but did a year or two back and found them very similar. You could enlighten us all on what is the best way to work out the U-Value of windows and frames, as many people struggle with it when designing a house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 "Bungalow gobbling" is a good way to go ( seriously it's not illegal, well, not what I mean anyway?). You get services already on site ( can be prohibitively expensive) and as long as you can demolish the whole thing ( the best way to get insulated foundations/ground floor) you can still claim the VAT back on the whole build. ( shame you don't do wood, my loss) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 My mate's missus is Polish and her dad runs a "double glazing" business over there. For one of his visits to the UK he brought all the windows and roof panels over in a big van for their conservatory and had a working holiday. The windows seem heavier duty than we're used to tbh. The big downfall was his using standard, big, heavy panels on the roof. Not only does it sag but it leaks. Water gets trapped behind the transoms. The base product looks good just badly installed imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 19 minutes ago, SteamyTea said: Welcome Nick Are building standards (official, not practice), really so different in the EU. I have not looked recently, but did a year or two back and found them very similar. You could enlighten us all on what is the best way to work out the U-Value of windows and frames, as many people struggle with it when designing a house. Thanks Steam (sorry to call you that by name but nothing else suggests itself ) Googling it now I found a site that seems to have good comparisons :- http://www.gbpn.org/databases-tools/bc-detail-pages/england-wales# You'll see the UK is at a max u-value of 2.0 (or 2.2 in some cases) for new build whereas Germany, Finland, Denmark, Sweden, e.t.c. are between 1.0 and 1.4. Might not seem like a huge difference but in practice, meeting those u-values means using 44mm triple glazing with Argon fill and warm spacer bars as standard for a lot of products. In the UK we have a fetish for slim windows (sightline-wise). Our slimline open-out systems struggle with the depth and weight of triple glazing and don't really have Uf values low enough to take advantage of them in any case. To use triple glazing effectively you need to move up to a bulkier window with foam inserts - these don't match the look of our old steel and timber windows so even if you're not in a formal conservation area, your house will stand out a mile if you fit something like this when all of your neighbours have Georgian windows with their hundreds of tiny squares. A planned move to a 1.4 minimum window U-value in Part L was delayed a couple of years ago because of limiting factors like this though the day is coming.... Regarding u-value calcs, maybe this is something best done in a separate thread of glazing questions as it is a bit involved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogman Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Hi @Nick we are on the Berkshire / Oxon and bungalow gobbled. Land around here and i mean any land goes for silly money. There is a agricultural field near us with no possibility of planning for a host of reasons being marketed for £500k . as a potential building plot. The number of people looking at it is unbelievable. We have spoken to a few of the people who have knocked on our door asking about the area and have had to correct some pretty horrendous lies told by the agent. Services in the road was one. There are none, however the agent corrected it with the person on the phone and said there are services but they are 2 miles down the road. All i would say do your own checks and do not take anything the agent says as gospel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 9 minutes ago, Onoff said: My mate's missus is Polish and her dad runs a "double glazing" business over there. For one of his visits to the UK he brought all the windows and roof panels over in a big van for their conservatory and had a working holiday. The windows seem heavier duty than we're used to tbh. The big downfall was his using standard, big, heavy panels on the roof. Not only does it sag but it leaks. Water gets trapped behind the transoms. The base product looks good just badly installed imo. We don't do conservatories and this one of the the main reasons. Thankfully they are dying out fast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 25 minutes ago, joe90 said: "Bungalow gobbling" is a good way to go ( seriously it's not illegal, well, not what I mean anyway?). You get services already on site ( can be prohibitively expensive) and as long as you can demolish the whole thing ( the best way to get insulated foundations/ground floor) you can still claim the VAT back on the whole build. ( shame you don't do wood, my loss) Good tip, thanks. Would it be a struggle to get permission for a 2-storey house when replacing a bungalow or does it all depend on neighbours / proximity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogman Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 We have a 150% increase and gone from 1 to 2 storey. Trick is to look around at the local houses and find somewhere that already has 2 storey. West Berkshire allow a 50% uplift but others are a lot less. Again its a matter of looking at the local planning permissions on the council web site and seeing what gets passed. A lot depends if you are looking urban or countryside as rules differ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 5 minutes ago, dogman said: Hi @Nick we are on the Berkshire / Oxon and bungalow gobbled. Land around here and i mean any land goes for silly money. There is a agricultural field near us with no possibility of planning for a host of reasons being marketed for £500k . as a potential building plot. The number of people looking at it is unbelievable. We have spoken to a few of the people who have knocked on our door asking about the area and have had to correct some pretty horrendous lies told by the agent. Services in the road was one. There are none, however the agent corrected it with the person on the phone and said there are services but they are 2 miles down the road. All i would say do your own checks and do not take anything the agent says as gospel Thanks for the insight. Definitely have no plans to spend any of my hard-earned on anything other than land that has planning permission and access to services in writing. Have heard of far too many people being swindled. Still relatively young so I'd rather bite the bullet and look at areas I can afford instead of living in a dreamworld... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, dogman said: We have a 150% increase and gone from 1 to 2 storey. Trick is to look around at the local houses and find somewhere that already has 2 storey. West Berkshire allow a 50% uplift but others are a lot less. Again its a matter of looking at the local planning permissions on the council web site and seeing what gets passed. A lot depends if you are looking urban or countryside as rules differ Cheers! The cornerstone of the build we want is getting a very big double height room (8m x 10m minimum) - and having enough room left over for the two of us over two stories in the remaining footprint. Think we could work with a relatively low ceiling height across the two storeys but the footprint is going to be the key struggle. Back to stressing about the build costs - will have to leave stressing about the land until later a bit later Edited January 16, 2017 by Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 1 hour ago, joe90 said: "Bungalow gobbling" is a good way to go. +1, that's what we did. No way I'd have been able to afford a "building plot", but we just managed it with the bungalow (buying in 2012 didn't hurt either). Services already on site, no argument about the allowability of development in principle. If you're surrounded by larger houses, as we were, and the plot is a decent size, planning should be reasonably straightforward. I believe - but do check - that there's no strict maximum percentage size increase unless you're in the countryside or a conservation area. We replaced an 87m2 bungalow with a 289m2 very modern house with barely a whimper from anyone. 1 hour ago, Nick said: Plus "you" self builders are the most nightmarish customers ever and as I'm Technical, your wacky schemes and sketches will only end up on my desk tomorrow morning You'll fit in fine around here. Are all Nicks like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Nick said: I think ultimately If getting a house that we love means looking further out above the green belt then that's what we'll have to do. Motorway / Rail links would still be handy though. If you have any suggestions for anywhere along the M1 North of Watford that might actually work for a reasonably affordable build with modern construction methods I'd love to hear them. Depends where you need to get to ..! East Coast line is now commutable into London in less than 90 minutes all the way up to Retford and potentially Doncaster. If you sit between the A1 and the M1 then decent biggish plots can be had for £250k without trouble - bungalows again can be had for the same. The issue is when you want to be outside of the North Circular but inside the M25 on a regular basis as then the roads become a mare and public transport takes the same time to get 15 miles out of London as it has taken you to do the 140 miles in ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 22 minutes ago, jack said: You'll fit in fine around here. Are all Nicks like this? I'll ask at the next club meeting.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now