revelation

Soundproofing Party Wall in Semi

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Hi all

 

I am currently renovating my house and as we have gone back to brick I thought It would be a good idea to soundproof our party walls.  Sound seems to travel fairly easily to the neighbours, we have two loud kids.  

 

I have been looking at sound proofing methods and was thinking of either using acoustic panel plaster boards something like https://www.noisestopsystems.co.uk/shop/wall-soundproofing/noisestop-acoustic-panel/  its expensive and will cost us around £1200 + labour to get installed.

 

The alternative is to batten the walls and use 50mm of acoustic rockwall, then a layer of acoustic vinyl mass, then finally soundproofing plasterboard.   This is cheaper in terms of materials but more expensive in terms of labour.

 

What would you advise for the best results.  We don't want to increase the wall thickness very much.

 

Thank you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, revelation said:

What would you advise for the best results.  We don't want to increase the wall thickness very much.

 

Just one thing to consider, subjectivity does the noise come from the centre of the wall, or the edges of the wall?

 

Do you know if it's a brick cavity wall or solid brick wall? Though to be honest the remedial works would be similar.

 

The more space you loose typically the better the result.

 

My recommendation would be to put in a metal frame system that is independent of the wall or resliently mounted to the wall. Insulation in the cavity lined with 2 layers of 15mm acoustic/ higher density plaster board. However I understand this comes at a space premium.

 

There is some information on this type of system below, though you are going to loose approximately 90mm of room space for and independent stud (min gap to the wall 10mm)

 

https://www.british-gypsum.com/~/media/Files/British-Gypsum/White-Book/White-Book-C07-S05-Linings-GypLyner-IWL.pdf

 

If you want to loose less space at the cost of acoustics you could use a product like genie clip fixed directly to the wall, with top hat sections / furring channels. The cavity created is filled with insulation and lined as above. This option would loose you 65-70mm

 

A way to loose less space is a product like gyproc tri liner (now discontinued I think) which is 52mm thick. It is a mineral will batt backed platerboard which is fixed to the wall.

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In my experience in living in semis and terrace houses, is that most of the sound is transmitted through floor joists etc. We could hear no TVs, voices, or music from our neighbours but could hear them go up and down Thier stairs as clear as day. I'm not sure you can do much about that sort of thing.

Edited by Conor

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Do you have a chimney breast in the house? I found that although in my semi-bungalow that there is a cavity between the houses (which was empty, now filled with party wall insulation which I had blown in), the chimney breast was solid between the two properties, and i find this is where the most of the sound comes through, but obviously depends on how your house is built.

 

I plan on using 50mm rockwool between battens, and then soundblock plasterboard on top when i eventually get round to doing it, only this one room tho and not a massive area so shouldn't cost me too much, and i'll be doing the labour myself.

 

Yeah floor joists is the other, they are often pushed into the walls too far, and touch the other houses blockwork, as I've been replacing mine i've ensure they are in just over 100mm into the wall, but not touching the other house, and that seems to have helped too.

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9 hours ago, Moonshine said:

 

Just one thing to consider, subjectivity does the noise come from the centre of the wall, or the edges of the wall?

 

Do you know if it's a brick cavity wall or solid brick wall? Though to be honest the remedial works would be similar.

 

The more space you loose typically the better the result.

 

My recommendation would be to put in a metal frame system that is independent of the wall or resliently mounted to the wall. Insulation in the cavity lined with 2 layers of 15mm acoustic/ higher density plaster board. However I understand this comes at a space premium.

 

There is some information on this type of system below, though you are going to loose approximately 90mm of room space for and independent stud (min gap to the wall 10mm)

 

https://www.british-gypsum.com/~/media/Files/British-Gypsum/White-Book/White-Book-C07-S05-Linings-GypLyner-IWL.pdf

 

If you want to loose less space at the cost of acoustics you could use a product like genie clip fixed directly to the wall, with top hat sections / furring channels. The cavity created is filled with insulation and lined as above. This option would loose you 65-70mm

 

A way to loose less space is a product like gyproc tri liner (now discontinued I think) which is 52mm thick. It is a mineral will batt backed platerboard which is fixed to the wall.

 

Thank you for your response, the walls are solid between the houses, a doubled skinned brick wall.  I didn't want to lose more than 50mm of space, the Gyproc Tri Liner would have worked well as that included the plaster board so we actually would lose less than 50mm in all.

 

Wouldn't, the batten acoustic Rockwool and then soundproof plaster board be a similar solution.  We obviously plan to fill in any gaps or little holes in the brickwork too.

 

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4 minutes ago, revelation said:

 

Wouldn't, the batten acoustic Rockwool and then soundproof plaster board be a similar solution

 

No as the battens create a rigid connection from the wall to the plasterboard 

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7 hours ago, Conor said:

In my experience in living in semis and terrace houses, is that most of the sound is transmitted through floor joists etc. We could hear no TVs, voices, or music from our neighbours but could hear them go up and down Thier stairs as clear as day. I'm not sure you can do much about that sort of thing.

 

We have taken that into account, whatever solution we go for we will run it from top to bottom and between the joists (the house has been gutted, we have taken the floors up and all the plasterboard off too)  I guess the main sounds I wanted to deal with would be the day to day noises that the kids will make or any loudness from TV/Music.  We tend to have a lot of family around so it can get noisy.

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2 hours ago, MikeGrahamT21 said:

Do you have a chimney breast in the house? I found that although in my semi-bungalow that there is a cavity between the houses (which was empty, now filled with party wall insulation which I had blown in), the chimney breast was solid between the two properties, and i find this is where the most of the sound comes through, but obviously depends on how your house is built.

 

I plan on using 50mm rockwool between battens, and then soundblock plasterboard on top when i eventually get round to doing it, only this one room tho and not a massive area so shouldn't cost me too much, and i'll be doing the labour myself.

 

Yeah floor joists is the other, they are often pushed into the walls too far, and touch the other houses blockwork, as I've been replacing mine i've ensure they are in just over 100mm into the wall, but not touching the other house, and that seems to have helped too.

 

We have had the chimneys taken out and have had new floor joists which only go 100mm into the other side and in a couple of rooms we have changed the directions of the joists entirely so that should eliminate joists issues from there entirely.

 

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6 minutes ago, Moonshine said:

 

No as the battens create a rigid connection from the wall to the plasterboard 

 

I see, so that wouldn't make much of an overall difference?  What of the acoustic vinyl mass was directly glued to the wall then we battened added the acoustic insulation and acoustic plasterboard?

 

 

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7 minutes ago, revelation said:

What of the acoustic vinyl mass was directly glued to the wall

 

none, the mass of the acoustic vinyl would not significantly increase the mass of the brick wall. You need a cavity of some type, filled with insulation, and minimal / no rigid contact with the existing wall, then the extra mass after the cavity.

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53 minutes ago, Moonshine said:

 

No as the battens create a rigid connection from the wall to the plasterboard 

 

True, but it will be a far smaller contact area than before, so will go a good way to reducing noise (id say you'll easily achieve a 75% area reduction compared with the current plaster). You can also put a hefty bead of silicone behind the batten before you screw it on, to soften the contact that it does have further.

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6 minutes ago, MikeGrahamT21 said:

 

True, but it will be a far smaller contact area than before, so will go a good way to reducing noise (id say you'll easily achieve a 75% area reduction compared with the current plaster). You can also put a hefty bead of silicone behind the batten before you screw it on, to soften the contact that it does have further.

 

Even a couple of screws will significantly reduce acoustic performance.

 

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7 hours ago, Moonshine said:

 

none, the mass of the acoustic vinyl would not significantly increase the mass of the brick wall. You need a cavity of some type, filled with insulation, and minimal / no rigid contact with the existing wall, then the extra mass after the cavity.

Our issues is not increasing the thickness of the wall too much so if we are looking at just 50mm.  With easily available e products, what would you recommend?   The gyproc tri liner would have been ideal but I have checked online and it doesn't appear to be available. 

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Connor makes a good point about the noise being transmitted through the joists ( I'll call that flanking sound at risk of being pelted). Noise tranmission is quite technical. But say you have a 1960's semi with a party wall. Often you find the joists are built into the wall. You'll often find that between the joists there is a "soldier course" of brick.. the bricks are on end, hence the word "soldier" as opposed to being laid flat.

 

Lift a couple of floor boards along the party wall and look at the pointing on the soldier course, you'll often find gaps here as they were harder to bed properly and that timber joists will have shrunk over time leaving a series of gaps. It will be the same on the neighbour's side. They did know about fire protection even in the 60's but you were allowed to have a few beers during the day on site then so no one really bothered.

 

Make sure you fill any gaps in the soldier course to avoid disappointment. Also, when you have the boards up it a good opportunity to run some extra electrics.. just a thought..

 

If you want to stuff the joists next to the party wall with say rock wool etc as well then keep this away from electrical cables as they can heat up. I think there are other posts on buildhub about this.. search for Jeremy Harris and similar poster's etc.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Gus Potter
Typo's and afterthought

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5 hours ago, revelation said:

Our issues is not increasing the thickness of the wall too much so if we are looking at just 50mm.  With easily available e products, what would you recommend?   The gyproc tri liner would have been ideal but I have checked online and it doesn't appear to be available. 

 

Have a look at the Gyplyner system, particularly system 226008, still a rigid connection but may get some looses to to flexible frame / brackets compared to direct timber fixing.

 

https://www.british-gypsum.com/~/media/Files/British-Gypsum/White-Book/White-Book-C07-S04-Linings-GypLyner-Universal.pdf

 

This system would lose you about 50mm with skimmed 12.5mm soundbloc.

 

The GL1 profile is freely available and the brackets a just screwed to the wall and bent round, then screwed to the GL1 profile.

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Mate had a terrace. Spent a fortune sound proofing the walls either side of his chimney alcoves due to noisy neighbours. Didn't do the breast itself or ceiling / suspended floor area at the party wall. 

 

Didn't make as lot of difference tbh.

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On 14/10/2020 at 05:33, Moonshine said:

 

Have a look at the Gyplyner system, particularly system 226008, still a rigid connection but may get some looses to to flexible frame / brackets compared to direct timber fixing.

 

https://www.british-gypsum.com/~/media/Files/British-Gypsum/White-Book/White-Book-C07-S04-Linings-GypLyner-Universal.pdf

 

This system would lose you about 50mm with skimmed 12.5mm soundbloc.

@Moonshine how do you get to that 50mm number please? Are you recommending the GL system comes off the wall by 35mm (with 25mm loose fit ARP in cavity) then 15mm soundbloc, or just 25mm cavity (filled with 25mm ARP) then do double 12.5mm soundbloc?

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1 hour ago, tanneja said:

@Moonshine how do you get to that 50mm number please? Are you recommending the GL system comes off the wall by 35mm (with 25mm loose fit ARP in cavity) then 15mm soundbloc

 

This, from the link I provided.

 

1471251326_Screenshot_20201031-221306_AdobeAcrobat.thumb.jpg.e9b87afe68e51ef8b416d7f9e0aca648.jpg

 

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1 hour ago, Moonshine said:

 

This, from the link I provided.

 

1471251326_Screenshot_20201031-221306_AdobeAcrobat.thumb.jpg.e9b87afe68e51ef8b416d7f9e0aca648.jpg

 

@Moonshine I offer my apologies for overlooking the dimensions in the PDF, thank you for taking the time to emphasise. I had read of others electing to double board with high density board, it seems best to assume that you would recommend follow as advised in the PDF.

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9 hours ago, tanneja said:

 I had read of others electing to double board with high density board, it seems best to assume that you would recommend follow as advised in the PDF.

 

If you can loose another 15mm of room space, double board would be better acoustically. Depend on what space is available. Increased cavity depth would also help

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@Moonshine or others, what is best practice with the backboxes in the GypLyner universal setup?  I intend to double board, are holes cut for the back boxes, placing next to the metal studs so to affix the back boxes to the framework (assuming one would be foolish to have a back box floating somewhere in the plasterboard), silicone around the cutout perimeter with the back boxes to reduce air penetrations, and perhaps putty inside / on the reverse of the back boxes so they don't allow airborne sound through themselves?

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dry lining boxes may be worth a look?

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I wouldn’t have a surface box anywhere in a new home that’s being modernised…

garage/shed/workshop excluded…

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