Disabled Access - Steps down/ramps

[iSelfBuild]

Keen to hear peoples thoughts on this. I'm just about to start my project (a disabled compliant mobile log cabin)

 

The difference between inside and outside floor levels is 195mm - the exit onto the deck is through level threshold sliding doors - all be it with a step down onto the balcony - the reason being I want a half decent splash zone for the logs and I want access behind the 150mm timber fascias which covers the steel universal floor beam structure. There is a 800mm roof overhang all along the deck so shouldn't be too much of a splash zone anyway.

 

I don't think this is too ridiculous of a step down out onto a decking is it?

 

I am going to construct a timber ramp which can be installed for guests who require disabled access. This will fit under a stepped lip on the sliding door thresholds so will be about 175mm drop over 2100mm. This would project out onto a 4m x 10m decking area so won't eat into too much activity space.

 

Would a ramp of 1:12 also be permitted for the entrance door?

 

 

[nod]

I’m guessing you are looking for a sign off certificate Picture is the minimum that our Building control would accept 

[scottishjohn]

you must have a flat area  at the door -not a continuos ramp

the spec is inthe building regs

[DevilDamo]

You’re wanting to construct a disabled complaint mobile log cabin but will be looking to install what I can make out is a temporary ramp for those disabled persons that need it? I assume this has nothing to do with Building Regulations and you are just wanting to cover all bases/scenarios?

[Ferdinand]

Is it better to make it level, but with a gap (150-200mm?)  between the fascia and the deck, and a little bridge at the door threshold?

 

That would require a lip to the decking, but would prevent any need to bugger about with ramps between guests etc. Will your staff - whoever they are - be able to move a ramp that size?

Edited June 5, 2020 by Ferdinand

[iSelfBuild]

7 hours ago, scottishjohn said:

you must have a flat area  at the door -not a continuos ramp

the spec is inthe building regs

Caravans are out of scope of building regulations. But I still want to comply with easy access as obviously the whole point is to make it comfortable and accessible for wheel chairs. So even though the building regulations say it needs to be level. If a disabled person can access with a ramp then that is enough for me.

Edited June 5, 2020 by iSelfBuild

[iSelfBuild]

5 hours ago, DevilDamo said:

You’re wanting to construct a disabled complaint mobile log cabin but will be looking to install what I can make out is a temporary ramp for those disabled persons that need it? I assume this has nothing to do with Building Regulations and you are just wanting to cover all bases/scenarios?

Correct

[iSelfBuild]

1 hour ago, Ferdinand said:

Is it better to make it level, but with a gap (150-200mm?)  between the fascia and the deck, and a little bridge at the door threshold?

 

That would require a lip to the decking, but would prevent any need to bugger about with ramps between guests etc. Will your staff - whoever they are - be able to move a ramp that size?

 I thought about this and wondered if I could have like a floor grill grate or something. Or I could just fibreglass the sides with roofing spec stuff so stop any dampness against the steel floor chassis. I just don't like the idea of stuff butted up against it allowing it to rust!

[iSelfBuild]

7 hours ago, nod said:

I’m guessing you are looking for a sign off certificate Picture is the minimum that our Building control would accept 

Is this 1:20 ?

[scottishjohn]

8 hours ago, iSelfBuild said:

Would a ramp of 1:12 also be permitted for the entrance door?

why are you asking? -you already have said caravans don,t have to comply to regs

I think its very short sighted to to do it your way  and If i were a disabled person i would not be back a second time to yout chalet and would give it a bad right up 

access is everything for the disabled

don,t be  a peasant build it right first time

  lift the deck up and have wee strip of  s/sgrid between chalet and deck so water don,t go to chalet wall

you stuill got to have a ramp for wheelchair to get to the deck

[scottishjohn]

50 minutes ago, iSelfBuild said:

You’re wanting to construct a disabled complaint mobile log cabin

well you will succeed at that -.but i ithink you meant compliant

 LOL

[iSelfBuild]

9 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

why are you asking? -you already have said caravans don,t have to comply to regs

I think its very short sighted to to do it your way  and If i were a disabled person i would not be back a second time to yout chalet and would give it a bad right up 

access is everything for the disabled

don,t be  a peasant build it right first time

  lift the deck up and have wee strip of  s/sgrid between chalet and deck so water don,t go to chalet wall

you stuill got to have a ramp for wheelchair to get to the deck

 

Many shops and public buildings are adapted to be accessible to disabled people and make use of ramps don't they?

 

I'm just trying to find a happy medium between comfortable access and following full building regulations to the T - where I don't need to. On the whole, I find this forum useful to bounce ideas and soundboard suggestions from (on the most part) very helpful members.

 

So that's why I'm asking... I could just ignore it all as I may not ever even have a disabled guest or crack on with my original idea and find it's not comfortable for disabled people down the line.

 

The aim is to have a level access to the decking wrapping around the side of the cabin, not sure yet if it's feasible with levels on site but it should be. That's another reason why I wanted a drop down with a ramp as then it stops this wrap around access being butted against the cabin.

 

I have a sauna and grill house up on the peak of the site which is not going to be accessible for wheel chairs and a wood fired hot tub which wont be accessible.

 

 

[scottishjohn]

once you say diasabled access in your adverts --the expect claims if someone hurts themselves and  thier solicitor uses normal build regs to define "disabled access"

and if the regs are changed in the future  to include caravan sites ,which must be quite likely --then you going to have to do it  later anyway 

 

If you have seen these removable ones that councils use -to get round the regs ,cos its an old building --they are not small or light  to move about and need storage when not in use

 and at 175mm drop from sliding door to deck  you would need a flat standing area at half the height  as well,even if it was just foot traffic

 

 design the need for it out of the project now same as you will need edges  and handrails on the decking ,so wheel chairs can,t roll off 

 I take it the shower room is a wet room with wheel chair access  as well

 I,m sorry you don,t think I,m being hlepful --

i consider I am being very helpful and saving you making expensive mistakes now which can be designed out 

--

Edited June 5, 2020 by scottishjohn

[iSelfBuild]

When have I said you are not being helpfull John?

[ProDave]

Do you know anyone in a wheelchair?

 

One forum member when designing his house to be "accessible" found it helpful to speak to a wheelchair user to find out what they really want, rather than the building regs version of what they think they want.

[scottishjohn]

Just now, iSelfBuild said:

When have I said you are not being helpfull John?

ok

inferred in your  last post after my reply

[iSelfBuild]

3 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Do you know anyone in a wheelchair?

 

One forum member when designing his house to be "accessible" found it helpful to speak to a wheelchair user to find out what they really want, rather than the building regs version of what they think they want.

I do actually, great idea thanks.

[iSelfBuild]

4 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

ok

inferred in your  last post after my reply

No not at all. You asked me why I was asking and I told you why I use this forum ☺️

[ProDave]

I suspect the idea of the flat bit at the top of the ramp is so they can stop to unlock and open the door, without having to rely on brakes on the wheelchair to keep them there.

[scottishjohn]

6 minutes ago, ProDave said:

I suspect the idea of the flat bit at the top of the ramp is so they can stop to unlock and open the door, without having to rely on brakes on the wheelchair to keep them there.

correct  and if door opens outwards it must be big enough for wheelchair to back away from it and still be on the flat .

I had all this nonsense when I split my garage into 3 units ,cos i fitted a new entrance for one of the units ,so then it had to comply to latest BC regs

 telling them someone in a wheel chair they  could go round the back and in through the workshop door -was not good enough for them 

even when  i said i am happy loose trade from any wheel chair bound person thats wants a race car or a super charged saxo etc.

 

NOPE -compliance required

 

 how many wheelchair bound customers have i had in 8 years 

 

ZERO

 

height difference from outside road to my new door threshold 5"-- TOO MUCH --BUILD a ramp

and I had to make a disabled toilet as well that could be used by someone  still sat on the wheelchair -min size 2m X1.5m and all the grab rails emergency assist buzzer , etc etc

 so yes i,ve been there  done that 

Edited June 5, 2020 by scottishjohn

[Temp]

2 hours ago, iSelfBuild said:

 I thought about this and wondered if I could have like a floor grill grate or something. Or I could just fibreglass the sides with roofing spec stuff so stop any dampness against the steel floor chassis. I just don't like the idea of stuff butted up against it allowing it to rust!

 

You can have a 0.5" gap or a gap that is 0.5" at the top but which widens out underneath.

[iSelfBuild]

Thanks everyone, I'm going to detail something up later on.

[andyscotland]

1 hour ago, iSelfBuild said:

 

Many shops and public buildings are adapted to be accessible to disabled people and make use of ramps don't they?

 

Yes - and indeed it's a legal requirement for a business to make reasonable efforts to be fully accessible to disabled people. There's some leeway if it's e.g. a historic building that cannot be adapted, but any business operating from new/purpose-built premises would be generally expected to be accessible regardless of building regs requirements. Of course this legislation isn't generally triggered by any sort of pre-emptive council inspection, but retrospectively if a disabled person complains they've not been able to use your services. So compliance and enforcement is somewhat sporadic, but nonetheless the legal duty (and potential for fines/enforcement) is there.

 

It's worth considering whether you're likely to have an unaccompanied wheelchair user visiting, or whether other aspects of your site/layout/services etc mean it's reasonable to say it's only suitable for wheelchair users that travel with a companion/relative etc. The flat bit before the door is only really crucial if the wheelchair user is on their own as that means they need the brakes off to unlock and open the door but doing that on a slope is not possible. Someone with an able-bodied pusher would be fine with just a ramp. 

 

However it would probably not be reasonable to limit to accompanied wheelchair users if the ramp/flat section is the only issue - the expectation would be you'd think about that and design it out given there are widely accepted and fairly easy ways to resolve that problem on a new build.

 

Quote

 

I have a sauna and grill house up on the peak of the site which is not going to be accessible for wheel chairs and a wood fired hot tub which wont be accessible.

 

 

I'd review that too - the hot tub is probably fair enough as accessible bathing is a complex and somewhat expensive thing to address. But the sauna/grill house might need a reasonable explanation as to why it's not accessible if a guest were to complain they didn't have access to your full range of on-site services.

[iSelfBuild]

14 minutes ago, andyscotland said:

 

Yes - and indeed it's a legal requirement for a business to make reasonable efforts to be fully accessible to disabled people. There's some leeway if it's e.g. a historic building that cannot be adapted, but any business operating from new/purpose-built premises would be generally expected to be accessible regardless of building regs requirements. Of course this legislation isn't generally triggered by any sort of pre-emptive council inspection, but retrospectively if a disabled person complains they've not been able to use your services. So compliance and enforcement is somewhat sporadic, but nonetheless the legal duty (and potential for fines/enforcement) is there.

 

It's worth considering whether you're likely to have an unaccompanied wheelchair user visiting, or whether other aspects of your site/layout/services etc mean it's reasonable to say it's only suitable for wheelchair users that travel with a companion/relative etc. The flat bit before the door is only really crucial if the wheelchair user is on their own as that means they need the brakes off to unlock and open the door but doing that on a slope is not possible. Someone with an able-bodied pusher would be fine with just a ramp. 

 

However it would probably not be reasonable to limit to accompanied wheelchair users if the ramp/flat section is the only issue - the expectation would be you'd think about that and design it out given there are widely accepted and fairly easy ways to resolve that problem on a new build.

 

 

 

I'd review that too - the hot tub is probably fair enough as accessible bathing is a complex and somewhat expensive thing to address. But the sauna/grill house might need a reasonable explanation as to why it's not accessible if a guest were to complain they didn't have access to your full range of on-site services.

 

Crikey it's a bit of a mine field. The site is in the middle of a forest and you must pass through a gated entrance as well so it's not suitable for unaccompanied visitors.

 

I really do not like the idea of the decking being the same level as the first log from a rot risk point ot view... I may design a timber framed crib wall that can be clad with quarter logs on the inside to look identical to logs and with stone veneer on the outside... that might look quite nice actually and act as a very useful service run.

 

1:50 in shows this system

 

 

 

 

Edited June 5, 2020 by iSelfBuild

[andyscotland]

7 minutes ago, iSelfBuild said:

 

Crikey it's a bit of a mine field. The site is in the middle of a forest and you must pass through a gated entrance as well so it's not suitable for unaccompanied visitors.

 

It can be... My knowledge from a work perspective is a good few years old now, but as I recall it was considered easier to show it wasn't reasonable to make adjustments for unaccompanied wheelchairs as their needs are quite substantial and the numbers of potential customers in that category very low.

 

The advice I had was to decide what group(s) you felt you could reasonably service and then focus on making sure they had full access. And ideally write that up briefly so you can show a thought process if anyone asks. If you can demonstrate you've done everything possible for an accompanied wheelchair it's easier to justify not tackling barriers to unaccompanied. Similarly for blind/deaf/walking-mobility-impaired customers.

 

On the plus side from travelling with my wheelchair-bound mother in law I know that there's actually quite a shortage of nice, especially rural, accessible holiday accommodation. So putting in a bit of thought now will help to open up a reasonably-sized market for your business and could well pay off.