Ecodan Cooling.

[JamesP]

Can anyone help?

Have the Mitsubishi Ecodan W85 installed and would like to try the cooling function.

I have moved the DIP switch SW2-4 cooling mode to the on position and reduced the flow temperature to 12'c. 

Do I need to change the room thermostats to call for cooling or is another adjustment necessary on the Ecodan like the compensation curves?

UPDATE:

I have adjusted the room thermostats up and now it calls for heat / cooling.

Edited May 9, 2020 by JamesP

[joth]

@JamesP sounds like this is sorted, can I ask is it working well? Do you use it for space cooling and DHW heating ln the same day without trouble?

I'd be interested to know is there some documentation or how you knew to use SW2-4? I can't see it in the (UK) manual.

(I'm still  in the proces of selecting ASHP, the Ecodan looks to have very good COP for our needs, so interested if it has cooling capability too)

 

[JamesP]

Hi @joth  No information in the supplied UK manual. I found some supplementary info for cooling online. Its very easy to move the dip switch though I did need a magnifying glass to see it.

We only tried it for 24 hours so can only say it was having a minimal effect. The floors were noticeably colder as the flow temp was set to 12*c. Will try again in next warm spell and report.

The Ecodan is excellent, we have the 8.5 for a 285sqm  home, well insulated. Its also very quiet when running.

We moved in beginning of March and up to today the delivered energy was 4070 and consumed 677 so a COP of 6. We have a PV diverter so that will have had an impact on the figures.

Try this link : http://www.mitsubishitech.co.uk/Data/Ecodan/Controls/PAC-IF041B-E_FTC3/PAC-IF041B-E_IM1.pdf

Cooling ASHP.pdf

Edited May 15, 2020 by JamesP

[joth]

@JamesP thanks that's helpful! It has helped me find their "databook" which has more deatils too.
 

I now also realize they have two active product variants at the moment: PUHZ-W85VAA and PUZ-WM85VAA (note the missing H). The former is MCS listed, but using R410, the latter is not MCS but uses R-32 (and has sligthly better COP for space heating). So another case where RHI is stearing consumers towards the more environmentally harmful choice! (I presume this is temporary, until they get the MCS listing, but that could be delayed in the current circumstances)

 

Edited May 16, 2020 by joth

[Benjseb]

We’ve used cooling at work on some Panasonic ASHP. Works well with the fancoil rads we have, lovely cool breeze. 
 

You just have to be careful about condensation on the pipes  Ours sweat a bit if we go below 15c water temp

 

Obviously it’s not RHI compliant either!

 

our main issue was with the Room thermostats. We ended up using some remote RF units where you can change the “Normally open” to “Normally closed” with a button click. Then we just set the stats at the max temp we want and if it gets warmer than that the system kicks in. 
 

We now have an Ecodan at home so may try it if it gets very warm but prob won’t need it as the house is stone built to tends to stay cool all summer. 

[Donegalsd]

@JamesP Hi, I am planning to use an ecodan to supply cooling to underfloor loops. Do you use the same thermostat for heating and cooling? Is it fairly straight forward to set up and run? I am pretty sure that my installer (in NW Ireland -cooling isn't usually an issue) will never have activated the cooling function on any previous installs so I want to be sure that the cooling function will work. I am planning to use the mitsubishi supplied wireless thermostats transmitters and receivers. I suppose I would like reassurance that the heatpump will switch from heating (in winter) to no heating (in spring) to cooling (in summer) without a lot of intervention from myself. cheers.

[JamesP]

@Donegalsd I can only advise from limited experience. It is simple to move the DIP switch SW2-4 to cooling mode and reduced the flow temperature to 12c.

We only have wired thermostats in each room so had to manually change to call for heat, eg, if internal room temp was 26c the thermostat had to be changed to a minimum 27c for it to switch on the pump. It's a rather clumsy way of going about it.

Does that make sense, others here will probably have a better explanation and method.

[Benjseb]

On 01/11/2020 at 21:51, Donegalsd said:

@JamesP Hi, I am planning to use an ecodan to supply cooling to underfloor loops. Do you use the same thermostat for heating and cooling? Is it fairly straight forward to set up and run? I am pretty sure that my installer (in NW Ireland -cooling isn't usually an issue) will never have activated the cooling function on any previous installs so I want to be sure that the cooling function will work. I am planning to use the mitsubishi supplied wireless thermostats transmitters and receivers. I suppose I would like reassurance that the heatpump will switch from heating (in winter) to no heating (in spring) to cooling (in summer) without a lot of intervention from myself. cheers.

you’re probably better finding a thermostat you can “reverse” so it calls for heat when the room temp is OVER the set point. Then each spring switch it over. 

[Donegalsd]

Yes, thanks guys. My Mitsubishi supplier is not keen to activate the cooling function - so I will probably be looking for an alternative ashp supplier.

[Matt60]

Hello,

 

I am looking at an Ecodan unit and hope to be able to use the cooling function. Obviously, doing so is not RHI compliant and installers have their reservations and so this is probably best done by myself after install.

 

I've taken a look at;  PAC-IF041B-E_IM1.pdf (mitsubishitech.co.uk) but I can't see how you access the dip switch to change it over to cooling. I also can't see if you can leave it in cooling mode during the summer but still have it heat the hot water. That is not necessarily an issue because I plan on having PV system that will auto divert to emersion heaters when all the produced power is not being used anyway. 

 

Can anyone tell me how to access the dip-switches and if it can still heat the DHW when in cooling mode?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

[joth]

1 hour ago, Matt60 said:

Can anyone tell me how to access the dip-switches and if it can still heat the DHW when in cooling mode?

The dip switches are on the PCB inside the FTC6 controller case. You remove two screws to pop the lid off the case, and they're right infront of your nose (along with various live terminals)

Note the system needs to be powered down and back up to notice the dip switch change. 

 

Yes, it will heat DHW even when the controller is set to operate in cooling mode. Obviously only one or other at a time

Make sure it has been plumbed correctly with a 2 position valve to send water to the heating or cylinder circuit but not both together.

[Matt60]

@ Joth - Excellent, thank you. ?

[George]

I would have thought that piping cooled water through radiators in summer is asking for condensation to form.

[joth]

18 hours ago, George said:

I would have thought that piping cooled water through radiators in summer is asking for condensation to form.

It definitely would.

I'm piping it through a fancoil unit, that has a condensation drip tray and waste water pipe attached.

All the supply pipework is continuously armaflex insulated, but I do get a fair bit of condensation on all the pumps and valves etc in the plant room that I'll need to work on improving the insulation around. (My original plan was to tank the plant room and install a drain grate in the floor, but this was removed for cost. Wish I had, as as well as allowing condensation to run free on the various plant equipment, it would also have made installing the overflow pipe for the water softener far far simpler).

 

Edited May 26, 2021 by joth

[JamesP]

On 24/05/2021 at 12:33, joth said:

Note the system needs to be powered down and back up to notice the dip switch change. 

Can you explain what this means, I did use the dip switch last year and and it did cool without altering anything else.

I have just installed plumbing and electrics for AC split system for upstairs bedrooms just before I closed off a ceiling.

[George]

1 hour ago, joth said:

It definitely would.

I'm piping it through a fancoil unit, that has a condensation drip tray and waste water pipe attached.

All the supply pipework is continuously armaflex insulated, but I do get a fair bit of condensation on all the pumps and valves etc in the plant room that I'll need to work on improving the insulation around. (My original plan was to tank the plant room and install a drain grate in the floor, but this was removed for cost. Wish I had, as as well as allowing condensation to run free on the various plant equipment, it would also have made installing the overflow pipe for the water softener far far simpler).

That makes more sense. 

 

Hope it works. At some point cost difference compared to a stand alone AC unit may reduce to zero...!

[joth]

9 hours ago, JamesP said:

Can you explain what this means, I did use the dip switch last year and and it did cool without altering anything else.

 

 

I shut off the power to the FTC6, waited half a minute and powered it back up and only then the cooling option appeared in the controller menu.

My installer has a little ritual about powering down both the internal and external units, waiting exactly 5 mins then powering them up in some specific order to ensure they reconnect to each other, but I think (hope) that's cargo-cult. if there's a power cut in winter while I'm away I don't expect to have to send someone to dance around rebooting it in a special sequence just to get the heating working again.

 

[Matt60]

Hmm, condensation, I read that as long as it isn't below 12 degrees it won't happen but I think that might have been regarding the hard floors. The radiators will almost certainly condensate, I might just look to plan for a future separate air-conditioning unit or two.

[SteamyTea]

9 hours ago, Matt60 said:

Hmm, condensation, I read that as long as it isn't below 12 degrees it won't happen

That just reduces the amount of time it will happen.

You can get condensation at much higher temperatures.  We have a range at work that gets condensation on it, and the temperature is probably over 50°C.  If I remember, I shall try and put a probe on it and take a picture.

[Olf]

Condensation happens when surface temperature is lower than dew point of the air around. The higher relative humidity, the higher the dew point. The higher air temperature the higher the dew point. But still, as long as surface is colder, it will condense.

12°C is very rough estimate: in the summer months (warm air, high RH) - when it is the most of a concern for cooling - it will be higher: try yourself

[Dan1983]

Good afternoon,

We are also thinking of going ASHP using an eco dan unit.

our neighbour is approx 10 meters away, do you think the noise of the fan would be an issue or are they really quiet?

 

many thanks for any input 

[SteamyTea]

1 hour ago, Dan1983 said:

neighbour is approx 10 meters away, do you think the noise of the fan would be an issue or are they really quiet

If sized correctly they should not notice it.

My neighbours cars are less than 10 metres away, I don't notice them.

But the dickhead that is 40 metres away I do.  He still thinks that to start a vehicle you turn it over still it catches, then flatfoot it for 30 seconds.

Now where is that old can of expanding foam, a squirt up the exhaust should muffle it a bit.

[JamesP]

3 hours ago, Dan1983 said:

Good afternoon,

We are also thinking of going ASHP using an eco dan unit.

our neighbour is approx 10 meters away, do you think the noise of the fan would be an issue or are they really quiet?

 

many thanks for any input 

Any ASHP will create some noise, bit of a hot topic here. We have a Mitsubishi Ecodan W85 and I would say it is a quiet unit to others I have heard running. I chose this unit for the pre plumbed cylinder and reputation from others on the Forum. 

[Dan1983]

Yes from what I’ve read it’s about the quietest hence wanting to use one.

Do the fans run constantly or only

when hot water requires heating/ central heating required in winter?

I would hate for it to be one of those noises that drives people crazy in the summer when they are sat in the garden trying to relax

[dpmiller]

Fan will only run when it's actively heating. The fan on the better units is modulated and will change speed to suit the load.