Can environmental philosophy and self-build come together?!

[Jeremy]

Hi All,

 

Really delighted to find this forum, which seems to be full of kindred spirits, resourceful and generous folk. I'm an ecotheologian and philosopher based at the University of Birmingham, originally from the USA (Seattle). Along with my partner and two young kids, finally got indefinite leave to reside permanently in the UK this past year after a decade of living in the UK, first in Edinburgh, now in Birmingham. As the title implies, self-build for us is a matter of trying to align our values with our place of inhabitation. It is weirdly difficult to find homes which are built to high standards and sustainble architecture, and the frustration of this search which began a couple years ago has pressed us into thinking about self-build. We're in early stages, e.g. haven't yet aquired a plot or mortgage for building, but have been doing research towards this process for many years. I'll look forward to reading and contributing to discussions here, and particularly to learning from the huge amount of experience represented here. In the meantime, if anyone happens to know of a > 0.3 acre plot near woodland within 50 miles of the University of Birmingham for sale, do let me know.

 

All the best in these strange times,

Jeremy

[Dreadnaught]

Welcome to BuildHub @Jeremy!

 

I note that the Shropshire Hills and the north Cotswolds are both within 50 miles of U. of Birmingham. I for one would love to live in either of those locations.

[joe90]

Hi and welcome to THE forum. Like others here I have completed a self build and there is a mine of info to be had here. So many complain of new builds by major companies being less than adequate and it’s mainly down to lack of detail, the little things that make a big difference, also building to current building regs is less than “green”. Finding a plot is very difficult In this country and is your first step. Read away and enjoy.

[Jeremy]

Thanks to you both for greetings. We are indeed keeping a close eye on Shropshire, Malvern and Cotswolds!

[Big Jimbo]

Welcome. It can be fun here. Once you find a plot you will be asked to ensure that you design in some walk on glazing. Don't worry, the chap in question is a strange type, and most people either just humour, or ignore him.?

[Ralph]

Hello Jeremy, 

 

Welcome, I've found this to be a great place to get your questions answered, sometimes in more detail than you bargained for.

 

Ecotheologian is not something I'm familiar with, off to Wikipedia I go.

[craftqueen1000]

I am all for the environmental ideology but for whatever reason it adds significant cost to the build. We are about to break ground on our build and having to make these decisions now and with all the will in the world money talks no one will want a half finished project. So will probably not do as much as I want but I guess it's better than nothing ?. Good luck

[Onoff]

On 29/04/2020 at 15:39, Ralph said:

Ecotheologian is not something I'm familiar with

 

I think it's like the Na'vi and they worship Eywa.

 

They don't like concrete but love trees and have tails.

 

P.S Welcome @Jeremy!

 

 

Edited May 3, 2020 by Onoff

[ProDave]

14 minutes ago, craftqueen1000 said:

I am all for the environmental ideology but for whatever reason it adds significant cost to the build. We are about to break ground on our build and having to make these decisions now and with all the will in the world money talks no one will want a half finished project. So will probably not do as much as I want but I guess it's better than nothing ?. Good luck

I dispute that "good" has to be "expensive"

 

I am well on the way to completing our near passive house standard new build for £1000 per square metre, which by any measure is the lower end of building costs that you can achieve.  Yes that low cost has been achieved by me doing a lot of the work but I don't believe material costs are that significant.  Yes we have spent more on insulation because there is more of it, and yes we paid for good triple glazed windows.  Those are probably the only tangible "extra" costs.

 

The MVHR system was a cheap (but good) unit bought from ebay.  The heat pump was another ebay bargain and since you need some form of heating, I doubt you would have got anything else, e.g a conventional boiler any cheaper.

 

The main thing that differentiates a good house (in energy terms) from a poor one, is attention to detail, to make sure the insulation is fitted properly and the building is made air tight and most importantly no air path to bypass your insulation.

 

That latter point was brought home to me earlier this year when I completed the wiring on a budget self build.  I was staggered at just how badly it was put together, particularly the room in roof upper floor.  Plenty of insulation went into the building, but it was so appallingly fitted that most of it is completely useless with air paths bypassing much of the insulation.

[Jeremy Harris]

I agree about cost, it doesn't have to cost more to make a house more energy efficient.  We had an open day at our build, when a lot of architects (about ten, all told) came for a look around.  One of them was very interested in the build cost, and I gave him all of our costs.  His comment was that he thought our basic, insulated, airtight and watertight, shell cost about 10% less than he'd have anticipated for a one-off build.  That's born out by our costs ending up around the average for a self-build, for a house that needs very little heating.

 

It's really as much about attention to detail with the design and construction as it is to do with using more expensive insulation.  A great deal of the reduced energy use comes from designing out air permeability and thermal bridges. 

[joe90]

1 hour ago, craftqueen1000 said:

but for whatever reason it adds significant cost to the build.

sorry but I could not disagree more. As per others above, yes you buy a bit more insulation (which In the overall cost is minimal) and better quality windows (mine are not triple glazed but good quality double glazed with minimal thermal difference from triple). The big gain is attention to detail, no good having insulation with gaps that negate its values. Also good planning, making use of solar gain, small North facing windows. My build came in around the “normal “ figure but like others I did a lot of the work myself (this is a self build forum ! ). I think the additional theoretical figure comes from the assumption that you have to bolt on “green bling”.

Edited May 3, 2020 by joe90

[SteamyTea]

27 minutes ago, Jeremy Harris said:

His comment was that he thought our basic, insulated, airtight and watertight, shell cost about 10% less than he'd have anticipated for a one-off build

An architect would have charged 10% to 'design' what you got as part of the package.

 

Having said that, what you spend on insulation you probably get back by not needing upstairs heating or at least a smaller heating system i.e. less radiators, UFH pipe, small boiler or HP.

 

I think the big saving is in airtighness and that really should not cost much once the building team is onside with the concept.

Edited May 3, 2020 by SteamyTea

[ProDave]

I would say the biggest design benefit with a room in roof design, is to design the roof as a warm vaulted roof hung from a ridge beam.  This makes the entire internal space part of the heated envelope of the house and it really really easy to detail properly and make it air tight and ensure the insulation works.

 

The biggest issue I keep on seeing (like the house I mentioned above) is those that still build a room in roof design with attic trusses, and then try and insulate only the actual room spaces.  You end up with cold eaves spaces that must be ventilated and a very fiddly detail to insulate the room space properly.  In fact I don't think I have ever seen that type of roof construction insulated and sealed in a manner that I would be happy with.

[Jeremy Harris]

3 minutes ago, ProDave said:

I would say the biggest design benefit with a room in roof design, is to design the rood as a warm vaulted roof hung from a ridge beam.  This makes the entire internal space part of the heated envelope of the house and it really really easy to detail properly and make it air tight and ensure the insulation works.

 

The biggest issue I keep on seeing (like the house I mentioned above) is those that still build a room in roof design with attic trusses, and then try and insulate only the actual room spaces.  You end up with cold eaves spaces that must be ventilated and a very fiddly detail to insulate the room space properly.  In fact I don't think I have ever seen that type of roof construction insulated and sealed in a manner that I would be happy with.

 

 

I agree wholeheartedly.  Having deep (400mm in our case) ridge beam hung rafters, made getting both contiguous insulation and VCL very easy, as there's nothing in the way at all.  Definitely simplifies things in terms of ease of insulation, better airtightness and minimal thermal bridging, and anything that simplifies the build tends to reduce build cost, as labour is a pretty big chunk of the total cost.

[ProDave]

I can add lots of other benefits to a well sealed house.  You just don't get any bugs in.  The only time we ever get spiders in the house for instance is when someone opens a window.  Otherwise there is no way in. They don't even seem to be able to get in through the MVHR, the gauze over the external vents, and filters seem to stop that.

[Ferdinand]

On 29/04/2020 at 14:08, Jeremy said:

Hi All,

 

Really delighted to find this forum, which seems to be full of kindred spirits, resourceful and generous folk. I'm an ecotheologian and philosopher based at the University of Birmingham, originally from the USA (Seattle). Along with my partner and two young kids, finally got indefinite leave to reside permanently in the UK this past year after a decade of living in the UK, first in Edinburgh, now in Birmingham. As the title implies, self-build for us is a matter of trying to align our values with our place of inhabitation. It is weirdly difficult to find homes which are built to high standards and sustainble architecture, and the frustration of this search which began a couple years ago has pressed us into thinking about self-build. We're in early stages, e.g. haven't yet aquired a plot or mortgage for building, but have been doing research towards this process for many years. I'll look forward to reading and contributing to discussions here, and particularly to learning from the huge amount of experience represented here. In the meantime, if anyone happens to know of a > 0.3 acre plot near woodland within 50 miles of the University of Birmingham for sale, do let me know.

 

All the best in these strange times,

Jeremy

 

Don't forget that 50 miles would also cover a good amount of Derbyshire and Leicestershire, and also the triangle around Coventry.

 

I am not sure what impact the current Coronavirus will have on prices and the market - whether people will flee the city and rural plots will get more expensive, or the converse. 

Edited May 3, 2020 by Ferdinand

[Ferdinand]

On 29/04/2020 at 14:08, Jeremy said:

Hi All,

 

Really delighted to find this forum, which seems to be full of kindred spirits, resourceful and generous folk. I'm an ecotheologian and philosopher based at the University of Birmingham, originally from the USA (Seattle). Along with my partner and two young kids, finally got indefinite leave to reside permanently in the UK this past year after a decade of living in the UK, first in Edinburgh, now in Birmingham. As the title implies, self-build for us is a matter of trying to align our values with our place of inhabitation. It is weirdly difficult to find homes which are built to high standards and sustainble architecture, and the frustration of this search which began a couple years ago has pressed us into thinking about self-build. We're in early stages, e.g. haven't yet aquired a plot or mortgage for building, but have been doing research towards this process for many years. I'll look forward to reading and contributing to discussions here, and particularly to learning from the huge amount of experience represented here. In the meantime, if anyone happens to know of a > 0.3 acre plot near woodland within 50 miles of the University of Birmingham for sale, do let me know.

 

All the best in these strange times,

Jeremy

 

Welcome.

 

I think one of the interesting tensions is "ideology" vs "practicality" vs "long term performance" vs  "money cost" vs "carbon cost" vs "quality of life". For a concrete example, if your council had told you that your house can be "x" m by "y" m in floorplan, do you go for  'sustainable' woodfibre insulation, or for something theoretically less sustainable, such as PIR, but which is maybe half as thick for the same amount of heat saving, and results in more space inside or lower bills for the same thickness of wall and more emissions over the house lifetime. And how does that integrate with politics / ideology.

 

I was involved (as an individual subscriber) with a project or two in Brum from the mid-1980s to the late 1990s (IIRC) based at the West Hill College in the Selly Oak Colleges (usually around initiatives by David Clark, who now lives in Bakewell), which were mainly absorbed into the Uni then gradually ceased to be able to be their own centre. I always found 'Ecotheology' (though I wouldn't call it that) interesting as an important area in thinking amongst Industrial Chaplains and other similar networks, and sodalities which emerged from the hippy movement.

 

On here I think we lean towards long term performance and money cost as we are mainly spending our own money.  

 

A particular thumbsup for the "theologian" - a lot of people these days think theology is a good joke for children.  

 

Cheers

 

Ferdinand

 

Edited May 3, 2020 by Ferdinand