A Energy Rated unvented cylinder

[Robert Clark]

Hi Guys

 

Would appreciate any recommendations for an energy efficient unvented cylinder.

 

Looking online I can’t seem to find one any better than a B rating.

 

Would ideally like A rating 

 

Appreciate any suggestions  

 

Thanks 

[PeterW]

They don't exist... well, hot water ones don't !

 

If you want A rated then Sunamp is your only option

[Jeremy Harris]

Some companies will spray a double thickness insulation layer on, if you request it.  I had a thermal store double sprayed to increase the insulation level, but the company wouldn't/couldn't change the energy rating.

[Neil]

Have you looked at OSO Delta Coil.  This claims to be the only A - rated HW cylinder available in the UK. I went for the 250 litre version. Although I have no detailed measurements, it appears to lose approx 1 degree overnight.

https://osohotwater.co.uk/product/delta-coil/

[PeterW]

Interesting - what’s the price on one of those ..?? VIPs are eye watering normally and don’t like being bent so would be interesting to see how they get round a cylinder. 

[Neil]

Sorry I can't tell you much about the internals as it is completely encased. I bought the cylinder 3 years ago and paid £757 plus VAT for the 250 litre size. If I remember correctly there was very little difference in price between the OSO and the other more popular makes which were all B and C rated. Almost forgot, I also got a £100 cashback from OSO as they were running some type of sales promotion at that time. Running it with a solar PV  I-Boost at the moment.

[PeterW]

That’s a bit more than a standard unvented cylinder but suppose over a few years it will pay back - less heat loss means less overheating too in the house. 
 

Did you buy direct ..?  

[Robert Clark]

There’s some 150l for sale on EBay by the manufacturer for £400 delivered.

slight cosmetic damage, otherwise new.

 

 

[Neil]

No, I don't think that they will sell direct. Went through a company called City Plumbing, who I think are a subsidiary of Travis Perkins.

[Dan F]

@Robert Clark Did you decide against Mixergy in the end then?  Mixergy is "B" but you can get it with 100mm if required. 

 

Also, if you use the partial charging with Mixergy, while the label still says "B" you'll potentialy be using less energy than with a standard UVC.

[Robert Clark]

6 hours ago, Dan Feist said:

@Robert Clark Did you decide against Mixergy in the end then?  Mixergy is "B" but you can get it with 100mm if required. 

 

Also, if you use the partial charging with Mixergy, while the label still says "B" you'll potentialy be using less energy than with a standard UVC.

I did decide against it as I will be using using the cylinder for a number of years without any thermostat or solar PV input. 
A smart cylinder didn’t seem like a smart option 

[SteamyTea]

Rather than fret over the actual insulation on the cylinder, can you make the cupboard it is in insulated?

I could only put a standard replacement in my cupboard, but then filled the gaps with a combination of mineral wool and sheet insulation.

Over halved the thermal losses.

[Russell griffiths]

12 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Rather than fret over the actual insulation on the cylinder, can you make the cupboard it is in insulated?

I could only put a standard replacement in my cupboard, but then filled the gaps with a combination of mineral wool and sheet insulation.

Over halved the thermal losses.

I did wonder the same, with all the insulation off cuts I have left, why could you not build a cupboard within a cupboard, so box the cylinder into the corner of the plant room. 

[Jeremy Harris]

4 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

I did wonder the same, with all the insulation off cuts I have left, why could you not build a cupboard within a cupboard, so box the cylinder into the corner of the plant room. 

 

I did pretty much this, I added a layer of foamed on 50mm PIR insulation around our old thermal store.  Reduced the heat loss by about 30% or so:

 

[Russell griffiths]

5 minutes ago, Jeremy Harris said:

 

I did pretty much this, I added a layer of foamed on 50mm PIR insulation around our old thermal store.  Reduced the heat loss by about 30% or so:

 

 

Blue peters finest there. ??

[SteamyTea]

Need to make it look like a Dalek, would scare the crap out of nosey small children when then open the door.

[joth]

On 24/04/2020 at 06:48, Robert Clark said:

I did decide against it as I will be using using the cylinder for a number of years without any thermostat or solar PV input. 
A smart cylinder didn’t seem like a smart option 

 

I'm drawn by this rationale too. "Fabric first" philosophy of hw cylinders, focus on high insulation rather than smart tech add ons. (And vitally, no dependence on cloud connection to any server not under my control)

Looks like the "geocoil" is their heatpump ready cylinder, but can't find any pricing for it

https://www.osohotwater.com/en/domestic/delta-geocoil

 

They do list a UK direct sales info so I might shoot them an email/call

https://www.osohotwater.com/en/contact

 

 

[Dan F]

22 hours ago, joth said:

And vitally, no dependence on cloud connection to any server not under my control.

 

My current plan is to use Mixergy, but not depend on the app/cloud, but rather interface with Loxone via modbus.  Can then we as smart/dumb as I want with no cloud/app dependency.  They've confirmed they have a modbus interface, but I haven't seen the documentation for it yet.

Edited May 4, 2020 by Dan Feist

[Robert Clark]

On 23/04/2020 at 19:08, Neil said:

Have you looked at OSO Delta Coil.  This claims to be the only A - rated HW cylinder available in the UK. I went for the 250 litre version. Although I have no detailed measurements, it appears to lose approx 1 degree overnight.

https://osohotwater.co.uk/product/delta-coil/

Our new (imperfect) OSO cylinder bought on EBay (from OSO) saving over £500 was fitted yesterday.

 

Heated up really fast

well pleased !

[Russell griffiths]

31 minutes ago, Robert Clark said:

Our new (imperfect) OSO cylinder bought on EBay (from OSO) saving over £500 was fitted yesterday.

 

Heated up really fast

well pleased !

 

 

What sort of money. 

[Robert Clark]

22 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

 

 

What sort of money. 

£395 inc VAT and delivery

Theyve only got 150 litre ones though which is fine for the two of us 

[Robert Clark]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/113257154128

[Robert Clark]

Sorry I gave you the link to the B rated one

 

This is the A rated one

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/113535196260

[Nick Laslett]

It looks like Panasonic might have a rebadged version of the OSO UVC. 
 

https://www.aircon.panasonic.eu/_____/happening/sanitary-tanks/

 

https://www.saturnsales.co.uk/Panasonic-Hot-Water-Tank-300-Litre-PAW-TD30C1E5-UK.html
 

Specs and pics look very similar. In any case another EEC ‘A’ rated UVC, energy loss 1.13kwh/24hr. Website says it’s anode free does not require any maintenance. 

[Nick Laslett]

I’ve found an ‘A+’ rated UVC. Vitocell 300-V 200, seems a bit pricey compared to the OSO and Panasonic, also not appropriate for ASHP. As far as I can see as it does not have the longer internal coil. The 200L model has a standing heat loss of 0.75, which is better the the Sunamp UniQ9, which is their 200L equivalent. 
 

https://viessmanndirect.co.uk/Catalogue/Commercial-Cylinders/Vitocell-300-V-Type-EVIA-A-Single-Coil/Vitocell-300-V-200-litre-EVIA-A-White-Z016794