Am I over thinking again.

[Russell griffiths]

Morning. 

Have a look at this picture, I’m looking at organising my ufh and just looking at loads of pics from so called professional installations and I personally don’t like them. 

I find fault in all the pics, am I just a nutter, should I just slap it in like all these companies, or should I make my design better. 

 

Whats your opinion on the pic. 

[dpmiller]

where's the manifold and is all in the photo one zone?

[ProDave]

Is your concern the cluster of pipes together?

 

I can see that will be an issue for pipes set in screed, that will be a hot spot.

 

My own UFH is on a suspended timber floor between battens with a biscuit mix as a heat spreader.  I simply left out the mix on those bits that were a cluster of flow /return pips precisely to stop them being a hot spot.

 

Careful planning of the looks is important, and don't be afraid in a situation like that to drill floor level holes in some of the walls so they can take a direct route rather than all going in and out of the doorways.

 

Post up your proposed layout for scrutiny and suggestions?

 

EDIT:  Looking again, that large cluster of pipes I suspect is leading around that left hand room to the manifold.  I would suggest the manifold location has been chosen badly in this case.

 

Further suggestion.  Where you have a cluster like that, don't put them tight together like that.  Maintain the same normal spacing.  They will add to the heat of the room they are passing through and to compensate the "proper" loop for that room will be smaller.

[Russell griffiths]

Yes it’s the tight spacing, I see this on loads of pictures sent to me from so called expert companies. 

To me that is totally wrong and could easily have been designed better. 

Whats the point of 150-200mm smacking and then having 6-7-8 pipes all nearly touching. 

Will be bloody boiling underfoot in that area. 

[ProDave]

It won't be much hotter as the water temperature limits the heat.

 

There is an issue that you don't want to lose too much heat from the pipes "on the way" to their room.

 

Agreed careful design is important and much of that is placing of the manifold.  you can also insulate the "pipes in transit" to reduce heat from them.

[Russell griffiths]

What do you think about the strength of the screed in that area. 

You imagine the rest of the floor screed has a small void every 200 mm yet that area of mass piping has just a 30-40 mm layer over the top, I would bet my left nut that if you had to smash that screed out the bit over that collection of pipes will be weaker. 

[AliG]

I think that on our drawings they said they would insulate it in areas where they had lots of pipes together.

 

The things I have noticed are -

 

1. Make sure the manifold is well hidden, they are pretty deep from the walls and the UFH people will just stick it somewhere which may not be where you would feel it was best hidden.

 

2. The manifold gets warm and puts out heat, you can save a bit on heating if you put it somewhere in a room that will need heated more. Most of ours are in spare rooms, if it was in the wardrobe in an occupied bedroom it would pretty much heat that room.

 

3. On the other hand of course don't put the manifold somewhere likely to get too hot as you cannot turn it off. Hot water can circulate to the manifold when it is not in use and when only one circuit runs the whole thing gets hot and warms up whatever room it is in.

 

4. Manifolds contain a lot of moving parts and something will break eventually so make sure you can get at it for maintenance.

Edited March 21, 2020 by AliG

[Jeremy Harris]

The only real choke point on our UFH is where all the pipes have to go through one doorway from the utility room to the kitchen.  Doorways closest to the manifold will inevitably have to accommodate a closer spacing, but there's no real reason to run tight groups of pipes around a room like that I'd have thought.

[joe90]

My “professional” design had loads of pipes in doorways and I changed it to run some pipes through walls in a conduit, it also shortened some pipe runs, I don’t like the idea of many pipes close together in a high traffic area.

[ProDave]

I am a firm believer that you do not need under floor heating in a hallway.  So what I have done, is where 4 pipes have to pass through the hallway to get to the kitchen / diner, they do so through the hallway at the normal pipe spacing, and that is the only UFH pipes at all in that hall. 

 

That works very well.  The other 4 pipes for the 2 loops in the living room, pass under the stud wall between the utility and the living rom, immediately behind the manifold.

 

Like I say, sketch out your layout and throw it open to the forum for a design by committee

[LA3222]

2 hours ago, Russell griffiths said:

Yes it’s the tight spacing, I see this on loads of pictures sent to me from so called expert companies. 

To me that is totally wrong and could easily have been designed better. 

Whats the point of 150-200mm smacking and then having 6-7-8 pipes all nearly touching. 

Will be bloody boiling underfoot in that area. 

Ha, you wont like mine much then?‍♂️, I'll stick a picture up later but I have 22 pipes coming back through one doorway into the plant room where the manifold is located.

 

I am working under the assumption that yes, it will be a hot spot but during normal use the heat should distribute through the slab and even itself out. There are 11 hot pipes tight in the same area going out which will heat it up, equally there are 11 cooler pipes coming back through it sucking heat out, so all things being equal it will find an equilibrium which isn't too far out from the average slab temperature?‍♂️

 

It an ideal world the plant room would be in the middle of the house so that everything can be distributed equally in a 360 degree pattern.  Failing that I would run pipes under the soleplate of stud walls - but the TF detectors could put a nail through a pipe so too risky.  Going through doorways is safest if not ideal.

[Russell griffiths]

I understand the need to get 20 odd pipes back to a manifold, so there will always be a congested area. 

But that photo shows a row of 5-6 pipes running a considerable distance all next to each other. 

[Simplysimon]

1 hour ago, Russell griffiths said:

I understand the need to get 20 odd pipes back to a manifold, so there will always be a congested area. 

But that photo shows a row of 5-6 pipes running a considerable distance all next to each other. 

cat/dog sleeping areas