PeterW Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 11 hours ago, zoothorn said: should I make best use of these in the area suggested, friction fitting in the ends of the joists ('above' the wall PIR).. or a waste of time/ just put fluff up to ends? really good use of offcuts - pack them in well and then foam them in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted March 4, 2020 Author Share Posted March 4, 2020 Just now, PeterW said: If you want a VCL then a £15 roll of plastic from Screwfix will do fine. If not, the world won’t end. I would just use foil tape over the joists and studs and be done with it - nice job to do, takes a couple of hours but you’ll end up with a nicely sealed up and shiny room ? £15?? ok so the cost is no issue then.. great. But Peter, I can't decide to add it or not.. if I don't know if its needed or not. If its needed > I add it. If its not needed > I don't. (I'll get to the foil tape stuff wtf it is & where it might go once I can establish if a vcl is to be done, or not). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted March 4, 2020 Author Share Posted March 4, 2020 (edited) I think I need to call the BCO to ask.. but I was putting off calling as he'll likely ask 'whose your electrician?' (I dont want to jeapordise him knowing me & chap doing 1st & 2nd fix.. then a part-p reg'd other chap is jumping on board to check all > give me the doc). Is there no-one on here that knows if a vcl layer over my PIR is compulsory with a timber frame build-? Edited March 4, 2020 by zoothorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundtuit Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 It should be specified on your plans, but as we know, they're a bit hazy. Ask your BCO; that's who you need to satisfy if you want sign-off. For what it's worth, I think yes, it is necessary, and if it was mine I'd do it without hesitation. The idea is to prevent moisture from 'living' migrating into your structure, condensating where it meets cold air and causing problems further up the road. You can install a cheap polythene sheet with a staple gun to form a barrier, or as @PeterW suggests, foil tape over the timber to seal it to the foil PIR, effectively achieving the same thing. If you can fit PIR that neatly, you can do a VCL! ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 are you going to do an air leakage test? If so do it now, when it shows up all the leaks and drafts then fit the VCL and it will do 2 jobs if fitted and taped well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Right or wrong this is what I did. Seems to guarantee no draughts. I used every bit of pir up and foamed it in. Then used Screwfix vcl and silver taped the joins. https://www.screwfix.com/p/capital-valley-plastics-ltd-vapour-barrier-green-300ga-20-x-2-5m/12869? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted March 4, 2020 Author Share Posted March 4, 2020 30 minutes ago, Roundtuit said: It should be specified on your plans, but as we know, they're a bit hazy. Ask your BCO; that's who you need to satisfy if you want sign-off. For what it's worth, I think yes, it is necessary, and if it was mine I'd do it without hesitation. The idea is to prevent moisture from 'living' migrating into your structure, condensating where it meets cold air and causing problems further up the road. You can install a cheap polythene sheet with a staple gun to form a barrier, or as @PeterW suggests, foil tape over the timber to seal it to the foil PIR, effectively achieving the same thing. If you can fit PIR that neatly, you can do a VCL! ? My plan is not 'hazy'. It is the very, very, very opposite of hazy; its as clear & concise as humanly possible. Its a plan. It is not "Full Plans" though. The reason the vcl (& other minutiae detail) is awol, is not because its "hazy". Its because the plan is one designed & stream-lined for use via a 'build notice': one specifically asked by my builder to be redundant of details, only showing the critical placements of critical things (a door, a window, a wall for eg). The fact that he couldn't even build to these simple & clear page1 critical positions, but just did xyz to his way seemingly.. is entirely irrelevant now the bill paid a month ago, & certainly totally irrelevant to the thread. It is NOT, nor ever was, a Full-Plans type of plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Construction Channel Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 This is the foil tape stuff. If you use 100mm one strip will do both sides of the stud. Fixman 191666 Silver Aluminium Foil Adhesive Tape 100mm x 50m https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00FHXGGXA/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_W4cyEbK94YDKY You could even run a band of it horizontal at about 1200 off the floor and then everyone would just assume there is a noggin behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundtuit Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 6 minutes ago, zoothorn said: My plan is not 'hazy'. It is the very, very, very opposite of hazy; its as clear & concise as humanly possible. OK. You're right. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted March 4, 2020 Author Share Posted March 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, Roundtuit said: OK. You're right. ? Yes. indeed so. Tbh this is the one & only thing on the whole journey of pain this build's been.. that I am certain of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted March 4, 2020 Author Share Posted March 4, 2020 10 minutes ago, Construction Channel said: This is the foil tape stuff. If you use 100mm one strip will do both sides of the stud. Fixman 191666 Silver Aluminium Foil Adhesive Tape 100mm x 50m https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00FHXGGXA/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_W4cyEbK94YDKY You could even run a band of it horizontal at about 1200 off the floor and then everyone would just assume there is a noggin behind it. Ok thanks, so I understand this is one possibility, in order to create a vapour barrier. But whether I am allowed to do this instead of a vcl, I still do not know. (nor do I understand why I would want everyone to assume there is a noggin behind it.. eh? what's the thinking here? why would I want to hoodwink anybody into thinking Ive got noggins there.. when I don't need them anyway?) My head literally hurts trying to understand one layer of plastic. this building lark continually confounds me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Construction Channel Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 6 minutes ago, zoothorn said: Ok thanks, so I understand this is one possibility, in order to create a vapour barrier. But whether I am allowed to do this instead of a vcl, I still do not know. (nor do I understand why I would want everyone to assume there is a noggin behind it.. eh? what's the thinking here? why would I want to hoodwink anybody into thinking Ive got noggins there.. when I don't need them anyway?) My head literally hurts trying to understand one layer of plastic. this building lark continually confounds me. You are. Or at least we always have been and we have had many houses passed by building inspectors. The horizontal band was a bit toung in cheek. But when the bco turns up and sees you have made a very nice job up to regs they will be much less likely to start looking for other issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Construction Channel said: You are. Or at least we always have been and we have had many houses passed by building inspectors. The horizontal band was a bit toung in cheek. But when the bco turns up and sees you have made a very nice job up to regs they will be much less likely to start looking for other issues. What's a b...c...o? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Construction Channel Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Building control officer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Just now, Construction Channel said: Building control officer The BCO bit was tongue in cheek! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Construction Channel Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, Onoff said: The BCO bit was tongue in cheek! ? I thought my tongue was spelt wrong....... Just can't trust autocorrect nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMcN Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 14 hours ago, zoothorn said: So are you suggesting I remove all the PIR job Ive just done in order to put these midway timbers in, & redoing all the PIR (at a cost of £700-£800) seriously? I'm just asking help on my PIR job (& if a vcl is needed, I'd call this the finishing layer.. if its needed). I'm not needing to know how you might have done the build differently, or how you might think it better by redoing/ structural alterations: this is not helpful because I just cannot cope with a whole new avenue of information forming. This build has been a massive trial & effort for me to understand the huge no. of stages & info: I need to simplify or I just cannot cope. I'm on a roll here, I just need help to proceed if you could lend some help. The timberwork is done by my builder. I just need help on my PIR job, for now, just this. Thanks alot- zoot. Forget it, as long as you get what you need for the forum... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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