ToughButterCup Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 .... go formal on this one. The first question is: in the context of a refusal for a domestic (householder) planning application, how long does the applicant have to lodge an appeal? I think the answer is 12 weeks for the following reasons https://www.gov.uk/appeal-householder-planning-decision https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/544036/Procedural_Guide_Planning_appeals_v8_0.pdf , page 10, 2.4.2 But I have a naggling niggle in my head, that there might well be exceptions that I have missed. The original refusal was several months ago. Here's the secondary question, not to say 'twist'. If the applicant despite the planning permission refusal continues to live on site in a caravan while building a stables, (nothing to do with the refused house application) , is it reasonable for the LPA to allow the applicant to continue to live on site while the stables is built? At current rates of progress, Hell will freeze over before the stables is finished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 No exception to the 12 week rule unless it's a major development IIRC... On the second one, depends if he has permission for stables or are they temporary..? If no permission and he is permanently on site (ignoring the 28 days a year rule) then its council enforcement who need to deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted November 8, 2016 Author Share Posted November 8, 2016 28 day rule it is baby.. I've had enough... raw sewage on the ground.... the works.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 Raw sewage is an Environmental Health issue and needs reporting to the council asap... sadly don't think Environment Agency will be interested unless it's into a watercourse. How long has it been there ..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 Can someone list the planning history for this site. I am guessing: applied for permission for house - refused. Applied for permission for stable - refused. started building stable before application was determined, while living in a static caravan. I don't believe enforcement action is taken until an appeal has been heard, but that begs the question, appeal for house, or appeal for stable, or both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 (edited) I might be wrong but I think "domestic (householder) planning applications" are only for extensions and outbuildings not new houses? If the original application was for a new house I think it must have been a Full Application and I think the deadline to appeal that is 6 months. Edit: Householder Application.. https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200126/applications/60/consent_types/2 This form should be used for proposals to alter or enlarge a single house, including works within the boundary/garden of a house. It should be used for projects such as: Extensions Conservatories Loft conversions Dormer windows Garages, car ports and outbuildings Full Application... https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200126/applications/60/consent_types/3 You should use this application form to make a detailed planning application for development, excluding householder developments. For the purposes of this form, development includes building, engineering or other works, in, on, over or under land, or the making of any material change in the use of any buildings or other land. As such it should be used for: Any works relating to a flat Applications to change the number of dwellings (flat conversions, building a separate house in the garden) Changes of use to part or all of the property to non-residential (including business) uses Anything outside the garden of the property (including stables if in a separate paddock) Edited November 8, 2016 by Temp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 (edited) Regarding living on a building site... The GPDO allows temporary buildings http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/596/schedule/2/made Quote PART 4 Temporary buildings and uses Class A – temporary buildings and structures Permitted development A. The provision on land of buildings, moveable structures, works, plant or machinery required temporarily in connection with and for the duration of operations being or to be carried out on, in, under or over that land or on land adjoining that land. As I understand it that's usually interpreted to mean building workers don't need PP to live in a site van on site but a spouse (that isn't a building worker) and children (who cannot be building workers) would need PP. In the latter case councils sometimes turn a blind eye if permission for a house has been granted. Why was the application for a house refused? If it was refused due to a design detail the council might turn a blind eye in anticipation of a new modified application for the house. If it was refused for a whole host of policy reasons/green belt/no chance of a house there then they should really look at taking enforcement action. Otherwise once they have been living there 10 years they should be able to get PP for change of use allowing the caravan to remain indefinitely. Edited November 8, 2016 by Temp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 1 hour ago, Temp said: Regarding living on a building site... The GPDO allows temporary buildings http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/596/schedule/2/made As I understand it that's usually interpreted to mean building workers don't need PP to live in a site van on site but a spouse (that isn't a building worker) and children (who cannot be building workers) would need PP. In the latter case councils sometimes turn a blind eye if permission for a house has been granted. The normal procedure is to apply for temporary permission for a static caravan while the house is being built. that usually comes with a planning condition that the static van must be removed once the house is complete. In our case we wanted the 'van to remain as a work space / studio so we managed to get the condition instead that habitational use of the static 'van must cease when the house is complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSharp01 Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 What! Did I miss something? I thought all your @recoveringacademic permissions were in place - what of the wombat survey, the pissed as newts, the old gold mine on which you intend to build. (Sorry if my brain is a bit be-fuddled I have been through a whole bottle of Red this evening to ensure I just don't care who wins the US election until 'a whole new world' - tomorrow at least.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Is this not a neighbour issue ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 2 hours ago, Nickfromwales said: Is this not a neighbour issue ? Yes. With neighbours who follow the rules, I have no issue. We would benefit from good neighbours. Not from the opposite. 10 hours ago, MikeSharp01 said: What! Did I miss something? I thought all your @recoveringacademic permissions were in place - They are. His aren't: indeed, he has been refused permission. 14 hours ago, Temp said: As I understand it that's usually interpreted to mean building workers don't need PP to live in a site van on site but a spouse (that isn't a building worker) and children (who cannot be building workers) would need PP. In the latter case councils sometimes turn a blind eye if permission for a house has been granted. Why was the application for a house refused? If it was refused due to a design detail the council might turn a blind eye in anticipation of a new modified application for the house. If it was refused for a whole host of policy reasons/green belt/no chance of a house there then they should really look at taking enforcement action. Otherwise once they have been living there 10 years they should be able to get PP for change of use allowing the caravan to remain indefinitely. As so often is the case @Temp, you hit the nail on the head. Refused for policy reasons 9:4 at Full Council 14 hours ago, Temp said: I might be wrong but I think "domestic (householder) planning applications" are only for extensions and outbuildings not new houses? [...] If the original application was for a new house I think it must have been a Full Application and I think the deadline to appeal that is 6 months. That was the niggling naggle. And thanks so much. I greatly appreciate your eye for detail. [ Full Application vs Householder Application] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 34 minutes ago, recoveringacademic said: I greatly appreciate your eye for detail. [ Full Application vs Householder Application] It's a significant distinction. When we were considering buying the bungalow we eventually bought and knocked down, we went to the local planning department for an informal chat. As soon as we mentioned the word "demolition", they stopped the conversation dead, told us we were "developers" irrespective of what we planned to do with the house once built, and that we'd need to make an appointment and pay a fee before they'd say another word. Seemed harsh at the time, but I can see why the distinction exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 If anyone wants to know why I keep coming back here (as opposed to keeping quiet) this thread is a brilliant example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSharp01 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 There is another twist here I had not spotted but once you move from householder applications all the fees go up so every change / condition acceptance or review costs a lot more. In our case a householder getting a condition agreed £28 non householder £96 as soon as you use an agent architect or whatever you cannot be a householder unless you handle all the communications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 1 hour ago, MikeSharp01 said: There is another twist here I had not spotted but once you move from householder applications all the fees go up so every change / condition acceptance or review costs a lot more. In our case a householder getting a condition agreed £28 non householder £96 as soon as you use an agent architect or whatever you cannot be a householder unless you handle all the communications. Yep.... and an NMA becomes £195 with no allowance for appeal or discussion ..!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now