"Caber+" floor to fit/ Q's.

[zoothorn]

On 08/01/2020 at 10:59, PeterW said:

Insulation onto the floor, friction fitted. 
 

Lay a plastic DPM (sheet membrane) over the insulation. 
 

First caber board groove side up against the wall and into a corner with a couple of spacers to give you expansion gap (8-10mm)

 

Measure next board to fit to the gap and check for fit. 
 

Glue the tongue (foaming D4 is best) and fit the board tightly (use a board off cut and a mallet to keep the joints tight) and then leave the glue to dry and go for a cuppa. 

Take your off cut and use it to start the new row so you get staggered joints. 
 

Repeat as above... once first row is dried the rest can be done from that one. 

 

Hi Peter. I'm at last ready to do this caber+ 22mm boards. I've laid the 50mm PIR. (Pic below before last bits put in).

 

First I have two dpm/ dpc's to tackle: the edges where PIR pushes up against has a thinner black dpm- its coming up from below the concrete layer below the PIR, up around the PIR edge, & goes back into timber wall (~50mm above the PIR). At this same entry point, I have what seems to be 100mm of excess (it seems) all round the 4 walls, exiting/ sticking out into the room: this is the other/ the much THICKER textured black dpm.

 

Can anyone advise on what to do with these? bthanks, zoot.

[PeterW]

Bend it up and wedge it out the way with the boards if it’s in the way, plasterboard will cover it. 

[zoothorn]

Just now, PeterW said:

Bend it up and wedge it out the way with the boards if it’s in the way, plasterboard will cover it. 

 

Hi Peter.. Ive got two tho. Understand bend the sticky-outy thick one up (as I'm doing I guess).

 

So its just this pesky other 'side' one.. its kinda bulging out above the PIR you see, & going back in the wall.  Better pic here..

 

 

[PeterW]

Ok - seems to be a bit baggy ..?? Can split with a knife near the top and lift it up and overlap the lot. Makes the whole lot flat and up the back of the plasterboard. 

[zoothorn]

5 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Ok - seems to be a bit baggy ..?? Can split with a knife near the top and lift it up and overlap the lot. Makes the whole lot flat and up the back of the plasterboard. 

 

Yup exactly- its like a baggy ''P" shape (the tail of the P where the PIR is pushing it against wall).

 

Ok so I split the bubble bit at top, pull up over the thicker stuff/ bend all up, trim thick stuff to 1" maybe.. & staple the sodding lot flat as poss?

[PeterW]

Yep crack on ..! Always cut DPM so it’s upward facing and overlap where you can. 
 

That looks the tidiest build ever !!

[zoothorn]

3 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Yep crack on ..! Always cut DPM so it’s upward facing and overlap where you can. 
 

That looks the tidiest build ever !!

 

Its only tidy cos I'm OTT'ing everything.. not bc I'm onoffocd, more bc as having never done xyz I'm making sure every box is ticked (with a capital T) in order for muggins to have an iota of hope to get it signed off by my scary BO man.

 

Right now hang about Peter.. this ^ was just a premilinin prelimililiminary Q. Main one is thus:

 

Ive just noticed the long caber boards are flat-edged on one side only. So I assume I shove this flat edge up to side wall/ fine, but how do the rest of the boards' single flat (short) side figure/ fit to the next? (especially if its a shaped edge).

[PeterW]

Caber aren’t flat they have a groove on the “Flat” edge if you look carefully 

[zoothorn]

33 minutes ago, PeterW said:

 

That looks the tidiest build ever !!

 

 

Onoff are you reading this?! he's unusually quiet..

 

10 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Caber aren’t flat they have a groove on the “Flat” edge if you look carefully 

 

Quite right.. sorry that was the daftest Q/ rush to judgement. Great I'm good to go.

 

Will have 2060mm once 15mm sound-stuff pB on ceiling (advised by my BO). So -just- about bare-minimum acceptable for H.. so I'm fixing down with D4 after all not doing a temp-job & pulling it all up Ive decided.

 

Do I put -any- D4 between PIR & caber board? or will the oozed out stuff between joins act as a fix-enough.

 

[PeterW]

Don’t glue the boards down - 6-8mm wedges around the edges to stop it all moving and then fill the gap with cheap acrylic sealant and job done. Pull the wedges when it’s set and fill the gaps. 

[zoothorn]

Understood- good tip re. wedges. Is there a wiggle room period, or is the glue superfast set stuff?

[PeterW]

Glue takes a while and foams up through the edges a little. Leave it alone to set then when it’s hard go over with a scraper.  Best setting the first row of boards so they make a perfect edge to work from then the rest you can do in a day. 
 

Wedges will stop the boards moving about and give you a small expansion gap too. 
 

You may need to make a small block with an off cut so you can knock the boards tight - don’t hit the tongues with a hammer as they will break. Use the “opposite” profile. 

[PeterW]

This may help 

 

[zoothorn]

@PeterW

 

useful clip. Was just about to start but more Q's arise. This is why its imperative I don't just crack on without massive time spent prepping/ researching taking me maybe days' worth of prep time in order to proceed with the simplest job, even if it might take only a few hrs.

 

For eg in this case I have my 1st board -in theory- placed. I measure to the wall to get my offcut's L known. I cut it. But because of the wall I cannot get it in . So, I cut a bit off in order to join the t&g. So also needing an extra bit of room to insert it prior to slotting it home.. I'm left with 2 problems: the gap to the wall.. & how I can 'tap' the join together, if I cannot get access to the side.

 

Its all fine to do this like the clip, or in my case upstairs done by builders onto joists with no surrounding walls.. but its a whole different job with walls around the floor.

[zoothorn]

Can anyone advise here?

 

I guess I have 3 options as far as I can tell.

 

1) join two boards longways together, wait a day for glue to dry.. then position a few inches away from prior two boards (joined longways, in position) > glue the looooong two sections together. But I've no idea how the glue will bond the 2 boards, to be then lifted as one into position/ whether it might likely break.

 

2) or I have to contend with a big ~2" gap each alternate end, where I've fixed in a short offcut in (& how I get access to tap it home if the wall's in the way).

 

Or 3) do I fix the one full board in, then angle-in the offcut & fix? this aleiviates the gap (if I can cut it perfectly) but I still have the wall in the way so I cannot get it in tight.

[Russell griffiths]

You need to leave an expansion gap at the end of the cut sheet 

so cut that set 10mm short 

then offer it up at an angle going up the wall

glue your joints and slide the offcut down the wall and into the groove 

use a timber wedge between wall and off cut

smash it in to tighten the gap. 

Bingo 

use second offcut to start second row. 

 

[zoothorn]

@PeterW could you help me out here. I'm in a huge pickle with this job.

 

Another issue I have, is the ammount of boards Ive been given (no glue) by builder. As far as I can tell, he's worked out the floor area & allocated me -just- over this figure, in terms of board area. I don't know whether this is correct. On 1st thoughts I was thinking yes correct more board area than floor area etc. But now, laying the 1st down & seeing the offcut needed to get me to the wall to span the width of the room, is 2/3rds of a board.. I realise I cannot allocate two boards each per row (as has been done in my top room), scrapping the 1/3rd: as I will run out of boards.

 

So I don't know how to work out the board area relative to the floor area, taking into account the width of a board, & the width of the room.

 

As far as I can tell, once I use up most of a second board to join the 1st board, in order to span the width of the room, I'm left with a 1/3rd of a board left over. Now, I don't know whether its normal practise to use this 1/3rd.. or whether its not normal practise/ & you scrap this 1/3rd.

 

So what on earth do I do? I've never seen on either my top room floor/ or any www photo eg's/ or any youtube clips.. of any small offcut being used. But I don't have enough boards to do the job without using almost every one of them up.

 

Does anyone have any iodea what I'm talking about? I'm finding it difficult to try & explain, let alone know what to do.

[zoothorn]

50 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

You need to leave an expansion gap at the end of the cut sheet 

so cut that set 10mm short 

then offer it up at an angle going up the wall

glue your joints and slide the offcut down the wall and into the groove 

use a timber wedge between wall and off cut

smash it in to tighten the gap. 

Bingo 

use second offcut to start second row. 

 

 

Hi Russell. I will go over this post once I establish my bigger problem -just arisen-.

 

Could you have a look at my post immediately after this ^ one of yours? (mods: please-please-please.. could you add numbers eg #35 to the posts?? its extremely difficult to reference posts [& information within] without: is this not a simple addition? thanks).

[Declan52]

35 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

@PeterW could you help me out here. I'm in a huge pickle with this job.

 

Another issue I have, is the ammount of boards Ive been given (no glue) by builder. As far as I can tell, he's worked out the floor area & allocated me -just- over this figure, in terms of board area. I don't know whether this is correct. On 1st thoughts I was thinking yes correct more board area than floor area etc. But now, laying the 1st down & seeing the offcut needed to get me to the wall to span the width of the room, is 2/3rds of a board.. I realise I cannot allocate two boards each per row (as has been done in my top room), scrapping the 1/3rd: as I will run out of boards.

 

So I don't know how to work out the board area relative to the floor area, taking into account the width of a board, & the width of the room.

 

As far as I can tell, once I use up most of a second board to join the 1st board, in order to span the width of the room, I'm left with a 1/3rd of a board left over. Now, I don't know whether its normal practise to use this 1/3rd.. or whether its not normal practise/ & you scrap this 1/3rd.

 

So what on earth do I do? I've never seen on either my top room floor/ or any www photo eg's/ or any youtube clips.. of any small offcut being used. But I don't have enough boards to do the job without using almost every one of them up.

 

Does anyone have any iodea what I'm talking about? I'm finding it difficult to try & explain, let alone know what to do.

The end of the board doesn't have to land on a joist due to the t&g around the edges. The board on the rows above and below it will hold it. With yours being ontop of insulation it won't matter either. 

Just start the next row with your of cut.

[zoothorn]

As far as I can work out, I have 2 rows which repeat. The 1st row is easy, LHS one full board @ 2400mm + most of a board @ 1500mm.

 

The second row is doing my nut in. If I do as Russell suggests -& seems perfectly logical re. the grooves' orientation- I take my 900mm offcut from the 1st row, to start the 2nd row, I have left to right: my offcut @ 900mm + full board @ 2400mm + *another offcut @ 600mm.

 

Its this *final offcut I can't understand what to do, if its too small etc, where to get it from. It just does my nut in visualising it (especially the grooves to factor in) until my head literally hurts. This is why it takes me 10x the time of anyone whose done it before.

 

 

[zoothorn]

12 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

The end of the board doesn't have to land on a joist due to the t&g around the edges.

 

 

Hi Declan52, apologies I just don't understand this sentence.. so the following two sentences too I cannot follow.

 

When you say 'the end of the board'.. are you referring to the small offcut I'm left with? or the shape/ profile of the end of the board? (if so, I'm not understanding why you are referring to the profile.. as its not either of the things I'm grappling with, I don't think.. or am I?)

Edited April 25, 2020 by zoothorn

[zoothorn]

And yet -another- problem. I think.

 

I seem to have mostly caber+ board, with its writing on "caber+ this side up" & a brown shiny underside. But two rogue boards.

 

I cannot establish (my head literally hurts trying to spin it round/ upside down/ every which way) for certainty but I do seem to have odd boards, similarly grey, similar size, & with t&g profiles, but both sides grey.. & again I just cannot work this out.. what seems to be slightly different profiles to the majority caber+ boards. No makers name on.

 

So, another question. Are there similar looking type boards on sale, grey long/ thin as per caber+ boards' size.. which are in fact incompatible with anything other than their own -identical- same boards?

[zoothorn]

As far as I can tell, these two rogue boards are not compatible with the 6x caber+ boards, but spares from the build/ the floor above.. IE saving  wretched builder 2x for my ground floor I paid for. Not only are they incompatible, as far as I can tell, but he included no glue too. But Ive paid for this "supply PIR & floor".. although how he was meant to just "supply me" with a concrete floor (IE the words "..& fit" you guys told me were noteably absent on the floor quote) I've no idea, presumably leaving me with the PIR, 3x cement bags, buckets, aggregate, & hired a mixer too-?

 

I had to beg to get him to agree going 22mm chipboard floor, instead of the concrete -which I think can be ascertained, he would have laid rather than leaving me with xyz materials to do myself even if "..& fit" were absent from the quote- because of the whole damn H issue with the build I needed to claw back 50mm. But it was cheaper for him anyhow.. let alone diddling me for 2x boards & 3x D4 glues (what's that.. £100?). Fknassh*le.

[Declan52]

If you where doing this spanning joists the min length would be 400mm but you aren't your laying on top of insulation. So the cut bit from your first row starts your second row then you lay a full board and then a cut. The next bit left over from your cut starts the third row and on and on and on till it's done.

You can get many many different types of flooring of the same thickness but it will depend on the profile of the t&g of the boards wether different versions will fit together.

[zoothorn]

11 hours ago, Declan52 said:

If you where doing this spanning joists the min length would be 400mm but you aren't your laying on top of insulation. So the cut bit from your first row starts your second row then you lay a full board and then a cut. The next bit left over from your cut starts the third row and on and on and on till it's done.

You can get many many different types of flooring of the same thickness but it will depend on the profile of the t&g of the boards wether different versions will fit together.

 

Aha ok understand your post now thanks Declan. So in my case, onto PIR, it doesn't matter if I put as short an offcut as 580mm to start my 2nd row? ie is there any issue with going with this 580mm diddly bit > full board > another diddly bit?

 

Yes Ive definitely figured these two boards are -not- useable. Not only t&g profile different but edge shape doesn't align/ dissimilar anyway. Now I have to awful prospect of facing up to my builder (I thanked the lord Id never have to deal with him again) to try & get him to agree these 2 are incompatible [he'll just angrily shove one against a caber+ & say "they're fine" & then we're into argument > he gets angry/ I just can't face it].

 

Considering they look identical, & I was never likely to know these 2 different until doing the job, far after having paid for the 'supply' of the floor.. & builder likely knowing full well they'd not be useable/ so likely shafted me.. how would you attempt to go about this with him? also do you think the lack of glue should be mentioned too being £40 worth of D4-? or is it all my fault 'well you paid/ what do you expect if you didn't inspect each one at the time'?