Triassic Posted November 30, 2019 Author Share Posted November 30, 2019 Morning everyone. I've had loads of requests for a copy of the lighting design, done by a supplier via the electrical wholesaler, to be honest 'm not very impressed as it appear to have been done using software and a best fit approach, based on their range of lights. look forward to your feedback. Lighting_Design.pdf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puntloos Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 12 hours ago, Triassic said: Morning everyone. I've had loads of requests for a copy of the lighting design, done by a supplier via the electrical wholesaler, to be honest 'm not very impressed as it appear to have been done using software and a best fit approach, based on their range of lights. look forward to your feedback. Lighting_Design.pdf 2.03 MB · 10 downloads On a cursory glance, am I understanding the drawings correctly that they are proposing effectively only straight downlighters, and e.g. in the bathroom one single blaze of a thousand suns LED? What are the orange lines (e.g. in the bathroom a square, but in most rooms slightly more creative).. are they electrical lines that perhaps go to switches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee J Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 Seems to be a plan to achieve a certain level of lighting around each room, using a minimum of lighting fixtures. But, lacking info on furnishing plans, useage patterns, and surface finishes. Equally seems to lack any concept of aesthetic. Looks more suited to commercial spaces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrerahill Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 On 30/11/2019 at 10:54, Triassic said: Morning everyone. I've had loads of requests for a copy of the lighting design, done by a supplier via the electrical wholesaler, to be honest 'm not very impressed as it appear to have been done using software and a best fit approach, based on their range of lights. look forward to your feedback. Lighting_Design.pdf 2.03 MB · 15 downloads Sorry, that is truly awful. Ansell are a commercial lighting importer who import low quality far eastern product, they have designed your house like a cheap block of student accommodation, I see spec's like this every week for care homes and student accommodation where the contractor has gone for the cheapest solution (but I bet they will multiply the price of these fittings by a factor of 4 for you) - most of those fittings can be bought for under £20 - I know the Eclipse MultiLED can be had for £16. These are surface mounted LED bulkheads I wouldn't even put in an outhouse frankly - you would cry if you saw your house with these installed. I throw Ansell product off spec's all the time and that is not even my money. If you want a lighting design, then employ a lighting designer, either an independent lighting design consultancy or the bigger consultancies have the specialist lighting design discipline. Electrical wholesalers are totally clueless, I bet you they would not light their house with commercial product. I am not being funny, but as said in my discussion re. lighting design above on this thread, manufacturers (unless aimed at high end domestic market), wholesalers, contractors, electricians and these lighting suppliers like Pagazzi are just totally lacking and wouldn't know how to light something well if their lives depended on it - I speak from experience of seeing their specs and designs and I am not just making a bold statement. Sure, you will find the odd designer within that camp who will have the skill and experience, but they are few and far between. As an example of the sort of people I would be talking to: https://www.slld.lighting/private-residence-edinburgh - https://www.johncullenlighting.com/projects/residential-lighting/ - https://ksld.com/interior - http://www.spatial-lighting.co.uk/11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrerahill Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 On 01/12/2019 at 07:39, Dee J said: Seems to be a plan to achieve a certain level of lighting around each room, using a minimum of lighting fixtures. But, lacking info on furnishing plans, useage patterns, and surface finishes. Equally seems to lack any concept of aesthetic. Looks more suited to commercial spaces. Nailed it - see my post above... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrerahill Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 On 30/11/2019 at 10:54, Triassic said: ... it appear to have been done using software and a best fit approach, based on their range of lights. To be fair, lighting calculations will be done using software - however, I don't think calcs are necessary here - it is a domestic setting. If I was to offer a lighting design service for a client, I would produce a full set of CAD drawings, with all the details, such as suspension heights or wall mounting heights, it would come with a full luminaire schedule outlining all the product, precise spec, colour temperatures etc. I would also provide some 3D renders and a concept board with imagery and sketches etc. it would be a proper lighting package. I would not probably run any calcs for a domestic property, only maybe to check we could achieve a decent illuminance in areas like a kitchen and to check the combination of lighting specified would work well to deliver a good ambient light level - it also then lets me show a client what it would loosely look like. I would not throw a set of lighting level calculations at you and expect you think you are sorted. Those are there for building design, to ensure lighting complies with the regs - what do they expect you to be able to tell, as an end user, from those calcs? It probably, with all due respect, means very little to most people. What a joke. In my kitchen I am having no down-lights, I am going to use recessed linear details hidden into sections of wall and bulkheads to largely have the lighting almost invisible, the kitchen will just glow with light. There will be a single suspended continuous linear LED product, very low profile, circa 30x7mm - but I will need to mock it up to get the size right in proportion to the rest of the space - and about 4m long, I want it powder-coated burgundy or royal blue or something so it standing out as an object, but not as a light, it will be indirect light only (i.e. uplight only) - this will wash the vaulted ceiling section with light which will provide reflected light and the general lighting to the space. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, Carrerahill said: [...] In my kitchen I am having no down-lights, I am going to use recessed linear details hidden into sections of wall and bulkheads to largely have the lighting almost invisible, the kitchen will just glow with light. There will be a single suspended continuous linear LED product, very low profile, circa 30x7mm - but I will need to mock it up to get the size right in proportion to the rest of the space - and about 4m long, I want it powder-coated burgundy or royal blue or something so it standing out as an object, but not as a light, it will be indirect light only (i.e. uplight only) - this will wash the vaulted ceiling section with light which will provide reflected light and the general lighting to the space. I, for one, would love to see an image of that..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragg987 Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 39 minutes ago, Carrerahill said: this will wash the vaulted ceiling section with light which will provide reflected light and the general lighting to the space. Will you get sufficient light at your work areas if just reflecting off e.g. white emulsion ceilings? I have not done any calcs, my feeling is you lose >> 50% of the available lumens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrerahill Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 2 hours ago, AnonymousBosch said: I, for one, would love to see an image of that..... Well I shall certainly post it on the forum when it's all done. Still at plasterboard stage so a bit to go and I intend on having Christmas off. Got it all designed and ready to hit the go button, wiring is in, so I guess the lighting will be staged some before, some after the kitchen fit out (don't think the suspended element is a good idea to have in when the joinery is being done!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrerahill Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 1 hour ago, ragg987 said: Will you get sufficient light at your work areas if just reflecting off e.g. white emulsion ceilings? I have not done any calcs, my feeling is you lose >> 50% of the available lumens. Yes - the way to look at it is to think of the LED source on the small profile and the whole ceiling area as a luminaire in its own right. So work out the delivered lumens from the ceiling, which in this situation is the reflector. Reflectance of a smooth gypsum plaster painted matt white has a Rho (surface reflectance factor) of 80% - also reflectances are dependent on angle, a direct 0° light source will not reflect light directly back well, but as my ceiling is pitched I gain the benefit of a 30° pitch and therefore enter the better reflectance zone. If there was concern of delivered lumens then I would just increase the lumen package but I am fairly confident that I know what I need to throw at the ceiling to gain the necessary light level. I have several lighting details throughout the kitchen to provide a higher level of illuminance to task areas, and indeed to be independently switched to provide a low level evening ambient light. I'll maybe do a whole post all about how it was designed and calculated when I actually get it installed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 (edited) On 02/12/2019 at 17:20, Carrerahill said: I'll maybe do a whole post all about how it was designed and calculated when I actually get it installed. That would be really good, especially if you can give some basic theory and calculations. So chop chop, no need to have Christmas off just because it is in the middle of the week. Edited December 4, 2019 by SteamyTea 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperJohnG Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 On 02/12/2019 at 17:31, SteamyTea said: That would be really good, especially if you can give some basic theory and calculations. So chop chop, no need to have Christmas off just because it is in the middle of the week. @Carrerahill did you ever post anything on this or pictures? Very interested to see as I'm just looking at very early stages of planning lighting design for my vaulted kitchen/open plan area Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrerahill Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 8 hours ago, SuperJohnG said: @Carrerahill did you ever post anything on this or pictures? Very interested to see as I'm just looking at very early stages of planning lighting design for my vaulted kitchen/open plan area Hi John, the kitchen ceiling has been done and the kitchen is now in but things have slightly run aground due to Corona so lighting has been delayed a bit as it will be a custom solution. I have however got the LED boards that will go into the suspended up-lighter, so my plan, when I get a minute, was to wire them up and get them into the kitchen sitting on top of the cabinets for now just to give us light until we get the real thing in. At present we are using 100% daylight - which interestingly, at this time of the year meets all out needs unless its post 21:00. So quite pleased that this kitchen will not really need lit a lot of the time and I suspect daylight dimming will be well worthwhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrerahill Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 On 02/12/2019 at 14:07, AnonymousBosch said: I, for one, would love to see an image of that..... On 02/12/2019 at 14:47, ragg987 said: Will you get sufficient light at your work areas if just reflecting off e.g. white emulsion ceilings? I have not done any calcs, my feeling is you lose >> 50% of the available lumens. On 02/12/2019 at 17:31, SteamyTea said: That would be really good, especially if you can give some basic theory and calculations. So chop chop, no need to have Christmas off just because it is in the middle of the week. 8 hours ago, SuperJohnG said: @Carrerahill did you ever post anything on this or pictures? Very interested to see as I'm just looking at very early stages of planning lighting design for my vaulted kitchen/open plan area You guys were all quite interested in this at the time and John's nudge has prompted me to do a model of the kitchen and calc the lighting, this is mainly for you @SteamyTea as I know you were keen on the theory and calcs and I know @ragg987 you were interested on lighting levels. When I posted this at first I did not have the kitchen design finalised so I can now use the kitchen layout drawing to create a good model of the space (complete with kitchen and worktops) where I can then check the theoretical light level on the surface (lighting calcs are always prepared with a carefully calculated reduced light source to allow for many factors up to and including dust in the room) which will in fact be slightly less than real world light levels on day one. Once done I will post it all and let you know on this post so you can find it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 11 minutes ago, Carrerahill said: Once done I will post it all and let you know on this post so you can find it. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragg987 Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 Looking forward to it. My build is long complete so no immediate practical need, here's to the next time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberrys Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 On 13/05/2020 at 09:07, Carrerahill said: You guys were all quite interested in this at the time and John's nudge has prompted me to do a model of the kitchen and calc the lighting, this is mainly for you @SteamyTea as I know you were keen on the theory and calcs and I know @ragg987 you were interested on lighting levels. When I posted this at first I did not have the kitchen design finalised so I can now use the kitchen layout drawing to create a good model of the space (complete with kitchen and worktops) where I can then check the theoretical light level on the surface (lighting calcs are always prepared with a carefully calculated reduced light source to allow for many factors up to and including dust in the room) which will in fact be slightly less than real world light levels on day one. Once done I will post it all and let you know on this post so you can find it. How did this ever work out for you? Now trying to design some lighting for a renovation project and keen on this idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrerahill Posted July 26, 2023 Share Posted July 26, 2023 On 06/07/2023 at 06:42, Huckleberrys said: How did this ever work out for you? Now trying to design some lighting for a renovation project and keen on this idea. This is an oldie, it went very well, been in and working since not long after the posts, away just now so cannot photograph but will get some taken and post. The light quality is excellent, no shadowing anywhere, all surfaces well lit, and the walls and floors all have a nice wash of light over them from the whole ceiling "reflector". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 On 26/07/2023 at 12:36, Carrerahill said: This is an oldie, it went very well, been in and working since not long after the posts, away just now so cannot photograph but will get some taken and post. The light quality is excellent, no shadowing anywhere, all surfaces well lit, and the walls and floors all have a nice wash of light over them from the whole ceiling "reflector". Do you have any photos of this? Currently looking for ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eco_dreamer Posted September 29 Share Posted September 29 @Carrerahill Curious to see how this ended up please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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