Windows....which company did you choose and why?

[Thorfun]

1 minute ago, GaryM said:

Thanks for the reply, I think that is in the region of my lowest quote 11k + vat will be 13.2 + 5k for install. so 18K, but that is for triple glaze. I will give them a call.

 

The layout is below, but I'm happy for the supplier to simply  it to help reduce cost

 

 

the sliding doors will add a lot to the quote as they're more expensive than French doors. good luck. Norrsken are great quality windows and we're very happy with our choice. (just for clarity we haven't started building yet but we saw the windows at their showroom so have no real-world experience with them....yet)

[GaryM]

thanks for your feedback @Thorfun, I've had a look at the there site, they look nice windows and doors. At the moment I'm looking for fully Aluminium 

[Thorfun]

8 minutes ago, GaryM said:

thanks for your feedback @Thorfun, I've had a look at the there site, they look nice windows and doors. At the moment I'm looking for fully Aluminium 

ahh...ok. they don't do full aluminium! ?‍♂️

 

I'm surprised that IdealCombi are expensive. they were one of the cheapest quotes we had.

Edited July 30, 2020 by Thorfun

[GaryM]

@thorfun, so far IdealCombi is the lowest quote so far and includes solar glass. But looking at costs to other quotes and previous work we done . two years ago I had a glazed gable end  with bifolds and two large windows from Origin  22m2 in total, the cost including vat and fitting was £8k (i'm still waiting for a quote from the same company). But the quotes I'm getting now seem much higher than I expected, even if I doubled my old Origin cost it would still be 16k compared to 20k.

 

So just trying to work out if it's a complex design or have prices in the Covid period gone sky high

 

 

 

[Thorfun]

1 minute ago, GaryM said:

@thorfun, so far IdealCombi is the lowest quote so far and includes solar glass. But looking at costs to other quotes and previous work we done . two years ago I had a glazed gable end  with bifolds and two large windows from Origin  22m2 in total, the cost including vat and fitting was £8k (i'm still waiting for a quote from the same company). But the quotes I'm getting now seem much higher than I expected, even if I doubled my old Origin cost it would still be 16k compared to 20k.

 

So just trying to work out if it's a complex design or have prices in the Covid period gone sky high

 

 

 

ok, makes sense. best of luck with it all! I hope you find what you need at a good price.

[Pm1987]

We went with Ecohaus internorm and I would warn people to steer well clear of them. Its been nothing but a shambles since placing the order. Below is a small samples of the issues I have found. Once they have your money they don't care.

 

• Constant lies about delivery dates (They couldn't even tell me if the windows were in the country).
• Two doors didn't fit the correct position they were meant to be installed but "accidentally" installed were they would fit (back and side doors wrong way round). Offered to change the doors at my cost but after pointing out it was there error received a partial refund but now been waiting over 6 weeks for replacement parts with no final installation date. 
• One frame was a different width from all of the others. Been waiting an additional 6 weeks now with no final installation date. 
• Two windows broken during installation. Been waiting 6 weeks now with no final installation date. 
• One window didn't fit so cill carrier removed without being asked if this was ok. I have told Ecohaus Im not happy and want this fixed but have been ignored.This window now sites lower than the rest of the windows. 
• When the guys arrived to install they informed me they required scaffolding (at my cost) after the pre-installation visit a week prior when no such thing was mentioned. This led to arguments on site before Ecohaus did provide it.
• Argumentative directors who don't understand whats happening on site.The fitters do not pass any issues to management and when you call to discuss issues they have no idea what your talking about. 
• On site team have to be reminded daily to remove waste from the packaging from site.
• Argumentative site installers.
• Unsafe working practices. Installation team should have used a genie lift to move the windows onto first floor but instead build a frame (using my materials without asking) and pushed 135kg panes by hand. See attached death trap.
• Unsafe working practices. 2 / 3 men expected to lift 135kg windows into place when standard maximum lift weight is 25kg. This was questioned but told they always use three men.
• Poor installation in general. We were never asked to do a walk round and we sent a snagging list of around 50 points they had to come back and amend. I have noticed another few areas around the windows that you can still see daylight through since then.

 

The windows themselves are aluminium clad and do look good (still haven't removed the protective films) but for £40k I would have hoped for a stress free installation.

[SuperJohnG]

@Pm1987 sounds disastrous. Thanks for taking the time to give us a heads up. Not the first bad story I have heard about Ecohaus internorm. 

[Pete]

7 hours ago, Pm1987 said:

We went with Ecohaus internorm and I would warn people to steer well clear of them. Its been nothing but a shambles since placing the order. Below is a small samples of the issues I have found. Once they have your money they don't care.

 

• Constant lies about delivery dates (They couldn't even tell me if the windows were in the country).
• Two doors didn't fit the correct position they were meant to be installed but "accidentally" installed were they would fit (back and side doors wrong way round). Offered to change the doors at my cost but after pointing out it was there error received a partial refund but now been waiting over 6 weeks for replacement parts with no final installation date. 
• One frame was a different width from all of the others. Been waiting an additional 6 weeks now with no final installation date. 
• Two windows broken during installation. Been waiting 6 weeks now with no final installation date. 
• One window didn't fit so cill carrier removed without being asked if this was ok. I have told Ecohaus Im not happy and want this fixed but have been ignored.This window now sites lower than the rest of the windows. 
• When the guys arrived to install they informed me they required scaffolding (at my cost) after the pre-installation visit a week prior when no such thing was mentioned. This led to arguments on site before Ecohaus did provide it.
• Argumentative directors who don't understand whats happening on site.The fitters do not pass any issues to management and when you call to discuss issues they have no idea what your talking about. 
• On site team have to be reminded daily to remove waste from the packaging from site.
• Argumentative site installers.
• Unsafe working practices. Installation team should have used a genie lift to move the windows onto first floor but instead build a frame (using my materials without asking) and pushed 135kg panes by hand. See attached death trap.
• Unsafe working practices. 2 / 3 men expected to lift 135kg windows into place when standard maximum lift weight is 25kg. This was questioned but told they always use three men.
• Poor installation in general. We were never asked to do a walk round and we sent a snagging list of around 50 points they had to come back and amend. I have noticed another few areas around the windows that you can still see daylight through since then.

 

The windows themselves are aluminium clad and do look good (still haven't removed the protective films) but for £40k I would have hoped for a stress free installation.

Internorm equals stress I'm afraid. I know exactly how you are feeling, all I can say I hope you get sorted as my installation is not finished 3 years after the initial install. 

[Red Kite]

I can only echo what you say about Ecohouse Internorm  but increase all the times to 16 Weeks . They damaged  4 of ours in May and replacements are due in September. We rang Austria and the Director responsible for UK said  not his problem . he said uk based director would phone us but no call. Its caused us so much delay - cant render - cant plasterboard - cant get rid of scaffold which we need to to get services in . Fitters  were similar - had a genie lift but did not use it - used the scaff tower when we said dont use  until we brace it in the correct position for you . I could go on and on - I want the windows  to arrive  but do wonder about the   stress of installation will bring. Also 2 large pallets of damaged windows on the drive really reduces our storage area .

 

Before we bought we told them about what we had heard about installation and  they assured us they had  improved their fitting  and were aware of their reputation!! If this is improved what was it like before ?

 

[Mr Punter]

Some very sorry tales of Ecohouse.  For those in Scotland, Internorm by Scotia seem to have a good reputation.  It goes to show how important the agent / dealer / installer is.

 

https://www.internormbyscotia.co.uk/

[Pm1987]

I just hope as many people see this and avoid like the plague. 
 

Craig Luff the director has tried to pin all the issues on Covid but most are due to the staff incompetence. Covid has no impact of breakages, windows And doors being measure wrong. He also emphasises how they are health and safety played a major part in the Covid delaying the site team but the site team followed no government advice such as face masks , gloves, 15min close proximity working periods or even hand sanitisation. 
 

He also refuses to reimburse the timber he used   without permission but now offered to refund it if I remove my one start rating on google. If that one star rating puts at least one person off using them I would rather do without the cash. 
 

Does anyone know if triple glazing falls under the 2015 consumer rights act ? 

[SuperJohnG]

1 hour ago, Mr Punter said:

Some very sorry tales of Ecohouse.  For those in Scotland, Internorm by Scotia seem to have a good reputation.  It goes to show how important the agent / dealer / installer is.

 

https://www.internormbyscotia.co.uk/

I like their Instagram  and actually had a chat with Ryan today and hoping I can get them to the right price area for the pvcu units. 

 

However my architect wanted to steer me away as he said their HSE was terrible. Their two fitters got a lift up with a large window on a telehandler...on one job of his. They fell off and so did the window which broke. One of them had a trip to A&E. But thats the only story I have heard. 

[Mr Punter]

2 hours ago, SuperJohnG said:

I like their Instagram  and actually had a chat with Ryan today and hoping I can get them to the right price area for the pvcu units. 

 

However my architect wanted to steer me away as he said their HSE was terrible. Their two fitters got a lift up with a large window on a telehandler...on one job of his. They fell off and so did the window which broke. One of them had a trip to A&E. But thats the only story I have heard. 

 

The trouble is everyone wants the job to be safe but few want to pay for it.  Smaller windows can be handled really easily.  If you have things over 100kg you need to pay to safely get them to where they need to be.  It costs.

[Pm1987]

Another little update 

 

Original planned replacement items were meant to be delivered to England between 13.08.2020 - 29.08.2020. This morning Craig has emailed me to say these are now being delivered 26.09.2020. Original installation of some of the windows took place 16.06.2020. This means the replacement items Ecohaus had manufactured wrong are on a 15 week delivery. This 15 week delivery for the replacements doesnt include for the original delay. Please note the we placed the order for these back in January so we are looking at approx 40 WEEK DELIVERY if this second installation goes to plan.

[Ralph]

Blimey, I'm getting annoyed by the delays from Rationel but the above is in another league all together. 

[Thorfun]

45 minutes ago, Pm1987 said:

Another little update 

 

Original planned replacement items were meant to be delivered to England between 13.08.2020 - 29.08.2020. This morning Craig has emailed me to say these are now being delivered 26.09.2020. Original installation of some of the windows took place 16.06.2020. This means the replacement items Ecohaus had manufactured wrong are on a 15 week delivery. This 15 week delivery for the replacements doesnt include for the original delay. Please note the we placed the order for these back in January so we are looking at approx 40 WEEK DELIVERY if this second installation goes to plan.

 

after reading all of these experiences I'm so glad that I decided not to use Ecohaus. we do love the Internorm windows though but, quite luckily for us I guess, we couldn't justify the extra cost and so the decision to use Ecohaus or not was kind of taken away from us.

[SuperJohnG]

Albeit this is an Ecohaus issue, the associated lead time is from Internorm. In any case....its bloody long. 

[Thorfun]

10 minutes ago, SuperJohnG said:

Albeit this is an Ecohaus issue, the associated lead time is from Internorm. In any case....its bloody long. 

true and any Internorm provider might have these issues. I'm still happy with our decision though. ? 

 

although I haven't even started building yet so it might all change once I'm in a position to receive my windows!

Edited August 14, 2020 by Thorfun

[Pm1987]

Totally agree some of the blame is down to Internorm and covid-19 but Ecohaus measured several doors and windows wrong in the first place leading to this second wait.

 

Originally these were measured and then double checked at the pre-installation point by Ecohaus's director who also pick up the fact they were wrong. 

[Pete]

On 14/08/2020 at 08:42, Pm1987 said:

Another little update 

 

Original planned replacement items were meant to be delivered to England between 13.08.2020 - 29.08.2020. This morning Craig has emailed me to say these are now being delivered 26.09.2020. Original installation of some of the windows took place 16.06.2020. This means the replacement items Ecohaus had manufactured wrong are on a 15 week delivery. This 15 week delivery for the replacements doesnt include for the original delay. Please note the we placed the order for these back in January so we are looking at approx 40 WEEK DELIVERY if this second installation goes to plan.

We had the same delays on ours. What date we were working to was not what Internorm was working to. By the end you will laugh at their incompetence as it really is astonishing. We had a trim delivered from Internorm with our name and post code on it, nothing else and when I contacted Internorm London to chase up said trim they said it had been delivered. As luck would have it I had the item number that I could trace back and found out it had been returned to Austria as no house could be found, this happened once more after this even after I told every man and his dog involved with Internorm our full address, and yes I am bald!!

[craig]

It really boils down to two things.

 

1: Architects and clients discussing large items and on first/second floor without discussing how it will be achieved.

2: Clients not willing to pay for the equipment required to do the work safely.

 

It’s the window suppliers responsibility to supply it, it is their responsibility to refuse to install it without having the proper equipment which someone needs to pay for.

 

It’s not difficult to ascertain what is needed from the point of quote. Some won’t add it to be more competitive.

 

HSE rules are clear, what you deem safe to lift (no weight limit) but manual handling should be the last resort and mechanical lifting the chosen method.

 

We’ve just finished installing over 300 windows and doors to an commercial site in Exeter (Care Home) and every single window was installed with a glazing robot.

 

It slows the install down, it slows other trades down and it’s a bloody expensive part of the install (happy days for hire company).

 

CSCS cards are good but it advantagoues to have someone with SSSTS or SMSTS. These are more common for installers on a commercial site.

 

You can have CHAS and constructionline as a supplier (we do) but they ain’t worth the paper they are printed on and that’s being honest. Simply a box ticking exercise.
 

Mistakes in measurements happen, they shouldn’t but they do. Austrian suppliers are known to put issues into normal production queue without special treatment.
 

I’m far from perfect but when you **** up, take ownership.

[Pete]

52 minutes ago, craig said:

It really boils down to two things.

 

1: Architects and clients discussing large items and on first/second floor without discussing how it will be achieved.

2: Clients not willing to pay for the equipment required to do the work safely.

 

It’s the window suppliers responsibility to supply it, it is their responsibility to refuse to install it without having the proper equipment which someone needs to pay for.

 

It’s not difficult to ascertain what is needed from the point of quote. Some won’t add it to be more competitive.

 

HSE rules are clear, what you deem safe to lift (no weight limit) but manual handling should be the last resort and mechanical lifting the chosen method.

 

We’ve just finished installing over 300 windows and doors to an commercial site in Exeter (Care Home) and every single window was installed with a glazing robot.

 

It slows the install down, it slows other trades down and it’s a bloody expensive part of the install (happy days for hire company).

 

CSCS cards are good but it advantagoues to have someone with SSSTS or SMSTS. These are more common for installers on a commercial site.

 

You can have CHAS and constructionline as a supplier (we do) but they ain’t worth the paper they are printed on and that’s being honest. Simply a box ticking exercise.
 

Mistakes in measurements happen, they shouldn’t but they do. Austrian suppliers are known to put issues into normal production queue without special treatment.
 

I’m far from perfect but when you **** up, take ownership.

Yes you are right but at no point did I get an apology from Internorm. We all make mistakes but my Internorm experience was a complete joke.

[craig]

Just now, Pete said:

Yes you are right but at no point did I get an apology from Internorm. We all make mistakes but my Internorm experience was a complete joke.

 

That's the first thing you do, can't defend them tbh.

[Pm1987]

We got the same attitude from Ecohaus. It was always an excuse with no apology given freely.

[Gemmando]

Such a help reading Ecohaus reviews as have been progressing a quote with them. Not going with them now! 
 

Any feedback on Thames Valley Windows? Infinite windows? 
 

looking to replace wood frame sash windows and acoustics top priority as on a main road with roaring traffic. 
 

I was looking at Internorm due to acoustic glass and decibel reductions they can offer. Does anyone recommend Internorm for this? Any other suppliers I should look at? 
 

Thank you. 

Edited August 19, 2020 by Gemmando