PeterW Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 That looks tidy ..!! Well done ..! 400 centres - so basically measure 400mm from the outside edge of the frame, make a mark and then 800, 1200,1600 etc to the end. You’ll have a couple of odd spaces at each end but that is the quickest and simplest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted October 24, 2019 Author Share Posted October 24, 2019 4 hours ago, PeterStarck said: If i were doing it I would do 400mm centres and 22mm decking, but then I tend to over engineer. Looks a lovely spot by the way. Ok Ive heard the 400 figure said before.. but where is it best to measure this innitially from? the inside of the back beam (joists will go parralel to this, perp to stream).. or the centrepoint of this beam? I have 5x joists to go in this 2170mm square, so not sure how best to position them you see. I'm putting celotex in between, & a centreline of noggins (not staggered- I don't think it needs it-?). Thanks- yes I'm a lucky sod finding this little patch of paradise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyscotland Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 31 minutes ago, zoothorn said: Ok Ive heard the 400 figure said before.. but where is it best to measure this innitially from? the inside of the back beam (joists will go parralel to this, perp to stream).. or the centrepoint of this beam? @zoothorn it only really matters if you need them to line up with joins in other materials (e.g. sheets of wood/plasterboard/insulation/whatever). If not (assume you're just cutting the celotex on site) go with whatever is easier. 31 minutes ago, zoothorn said: I have 5x joists to go in this 2170mm square, so not sure how best to position them you see. I'm putting celotex in between, & a centreline of noggins (not staggered- I don't think it needs it-?). Thanks- yes I'm a lucky sod finding this little patch of paradise! Far as I know the only reason for staggering noggins instead of putting them in line with each other is to make it easier to fix them e.g. if nailing through from the other side. Don't think it makes any odds structurally. So again just go with what's easiest for you. If you're using hangers you may find it easier to fix them to the sides of the joists (carefully measured, obviously) before you put the joists in position rather than having to do it when you've only the 400mm gap to swing the hammer in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted October 24, 2019 Author Share Posted October 24, 2019 3 hours ago, PeterW said: That looks tidy ..!! Well done ..! 400 centres - so basically measure 400mm from the outside edge of the frame, make a mark and then 800, 1200,1600 etc to the end. You’ll have a couple of odd spaces at each end but that is the quickest and simplest. Cheers- frame alone taken me a solid week work tho.. 1 morning for you guys! bad day y'day but vgood today. I'm 1/4" out across the diagonals, & its all solid, so I'm chuffed. Ok so if I measure 400 from outside (back) frame edge.. I'll have -one- odd space of ~240mm. When you say -two- are you dividing this last odd 240mm into two, bc of the noggin to go in mid of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted October 24, 2019 Author Share Posted October 24, 2019 @PeterW oh & when I mark at 400, 800.. is this mark the front edge of the joist, or the centrepoint of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 31 minutes ago, zoothorn said: @PeterW oh & when I mark at 400, 800.. is this mark the front edge of the joist, or the centrepoint of it? front edge of every joist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted October 24, 2019 Author Share Posted October 24, 2019 20 minutes ago, PeterW said: front edge of every joist. Is the reason you're suggesting 400mm, bc I mentioned I was celotex'ing & that figure suits it-? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 Not really relevant with insulation but it’s more about structure and it “working “standard sizes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 12 hours ago, zoothorn said: I have 5x joists to go in this 2170mm square, so not sure how best to position them you see. I'm putting celotex in between, & a centreline of noggins (not staggered- I don't think it needs it-?). If I had five joists I would just space them equally and cut the celotex to fit as it's not a large area. I would also fit the noggins either side of a centre line so they are easier to fit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted October 25, 2019 Author Share Posted October 25, 2019 Will I have enough room to get a hammer @ my nogs tho? so I got 380mm, take off 50mm for joist W.. is why I was thinking isn't it made easier by putting nog hangers on joists after joists cut to size, but not fixed in themselves yet. I'm trying to figure out why staggering makes it easier to fit nogs too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Noggins don’t normally use hangers. You friction fit them then a couple of nails through into each end from alternate sides - hence why they are staggered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted October 25, 2019 Author Share Posted October 25, 2019 7 minutes ago, PeterW said: Noggins don’t normally use hangers. You friction fit them then a couple of nails through into each end from alternate sides - hence why they are staggered. Gotcha! blimey that one fried -my noggin- 1st thing.. was about to go buy 10x more hangers/ £20 saved. Any special nails tho? my twisty hanger ones too short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Nope - 4” wires will do. Or even big screws, they are only there to stop the joists twisting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted October 25, 2019 Author Share Posted October 25, 2019 47 minutes ago, PeterW said: Nope - 4” wires will do. Or even big screws, they are only there to stop the joists twisting. These I assume.. I'll have most left over/ so these ok for exterior jobs too, eg into softwood posts/ steps/ gdn walkway etc? https://www.screwfix.com/p/easyfix-round-wire-bright-nails-4-5-x-100mm-1kg-pack/16534?kpid=16534&ds_kid=92700048793290424&ds_rl=1249413&gclid=EAIaIQobChMImrKOtP625QIVBMjeCh2YOAg1EAQYASABEgKvgvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Yep they will do. Crack on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted October 25, 2019 Author Share Posted October 25, 2019 Or same galvanised.. that means non-rust I think/ surely I need for rain exposed posts.. or not matter then? boring Q sorry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Once a nail is buried into the wood, it will not rust ... Salisbury Cathedral has nails that are hundreds of years old in its roof and it’s still standing .... and they weren’t galvanized ..!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted October 25, 2019 Author Share Posted October 25, 2019 (edited) Another Q soory. I 'm having trouble working out my 5x joist spacing. I just can't work it out to mean the 5 are equally spaced in my 2170mm gap. If I divide 2170 by 5.. this doesn't work. Or by 6.. doesn't work. What on earth am i doing wrong? Edited October 25, 2019 by zoothorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted October 25, 2019 Author Share Posted October 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, PeterW said: Once a nail is buried into the wood, it will not rust ... Salisbury Cathedral has nails that are hundreds of years old in its roof and it’s still standing .... and they weren’t galvanized ..!! Very good point! understood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 1 minute ago, zoothorn said: Another Q soory. I 'm having trouble working out my 5x joist spacing. I just can't work it out to mean the 5 are equally spaced in my 2170mm gap.. or 2170mm measured from back edge of beam > to front edge of opposite beam. If I divide 2170 by 5.. this doesn't work. Or by 6.. doesn't work. What on earth am i doing wrong? you don’t need to equally space them. just do as I said, back to front, mark the outside edge of the Joists at 400/800 etc and then line the front edge of each bracket with them. You will end up with a smaller gap at the end. This is a shed base, not a bridge .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted October 25, 2019 Author Share Posted October 25, 2019 1 minute ago, PeterW said: you don’t need to equally space them. just do as I said, back to front, mark the outside edge of the Joists at 400/800 etc and then line the front edge of each bracket with them. You will end up with a smaller gap at the end. This is a shed base, not a bridge .... But I cant get access to put in the noggin, if I ve got a small gap left over.. this is why I'm trying to get them even. Apart from brain cells, am I missing s'thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrerahill Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, PeterW said: Once a nail is buried into the wood, it will not rust ... Salisbury Cathedral has nails that are hundreds of years old in its roof and it’s still standing .... and they weren’t galvanized ..!! It's dry! I have removed plenty of rusty nails from timber. Also, they were far better quality, the "nails" would be made from wrought iron, maybe even bronze and made by Nailors. Not the little 3.1's framing nails we use these days. My 1960's house has some proper nails in it, my childhood home and still my parents house, built in 1902 has nails through 9x3.5" joists which are about 6mm in dia. There is a known issue with cheap fixings and poor quality causing building issues. There was a house builder just outside Glasgow, built some TF houses about 20 years ago, the nails were just cheapy steel nailgun nails. There was a design flaw to some aspect of it, cannot remember, moisture in the walls or something, anyway, in almost all the houses this particular wall started to look "odd" on inspection the fixings had rusted and in many cases just sheared. My BC drawings spec stainless-nails for everything. Cost a bit more but at least I can hopefully count on them! Do not underestimate the importance of an appropriately selected fixing for a given situation and it's longevity. Edited October 25, 2019 by Carrerahill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Ok last joist with the small gap, you measure the gap, attach a noggin of the right length to the joist, and then fit the joist to the hangers - just leaves you the open end to nail on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrerahill Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 (edited) 19 hours ago, PeterStarck said: If i were doing it I would do 400mm centres and 22mm decking, but then I tend to over engineer. Looks a lovely spot by the way. I concur with Starcky! I went 400mm on my extension floor (total overkill) but it is SOLID! I like it. It would take a concert grand and a concert audience! I also consider lifespans, older houses have lasted very well, when things do go a bit wrong like a joist rots out they don't suffer the same because it was all so heavy duty. Which is why for the sake of an extra bundle of timber joists per room I think it is well worth it. Edited October 25, 2019 by Carrerahill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Carrerahill said: My BC drawings spec stainless-nails for everything. Cost a bit more but at least I can hopefully count on them! worrying unless they are properly strength rated due to differing stainless specs ... And I get your point on nails but these are for noggins hidden under a deck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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