Uninhabited Bungalow (8 years!) conversion to chalet

[Ped]

Are there any specific watch outs you would pass my way, about converting a 2 bed bungalow into a 3 bed chalet bungalow? The property was built in 1930, is dry, no movement and the roof is in good order. The projectis to build two additional loft rooms with rear facing windows within roof line and inc bathroom. The ridge height doesn't change.

Edited August 16, 2019 by Ped

[Russell griffiths]

The time you have altered it and faffed about, you may as well cut the whole roof off and use attic trusses, get a crane

 

 

 

in and get it all up in a few days, cover the lot in a scaffolding tent to save losing anytime over winter. 

Edited August 16, 2019 by Russell griffiths

[Gone West]

Hi, welcome to the forum. I would check carefully that there isn't any asbestos.

[Jeremy Harris]

Sounds like an interesting project.  I'd be inclined to look long and hard at the economics of the changes you wish to make.  As @Russell griffiths says, it's going to be a lot quicker, and probably cheaper, to just remove the existing roof and make the changes with a new roof (main advantage is you remove loads of risk, created by working with old and unknown structure).

 

However, this gets into the area where VAT becomes significant, so it may well be worth thinking of being a bit more radical, and looking at the cost implications of a knock down and rebuild.  The advantage of this is that the whole job will be zero rated for VAT, which may swing things in its favour.

 

I suspect that, as a part of bringing this old house back into habitable condition you may have to make it comply with current building regulations, which will mean upgrading the insulation level, probably rewiring the house as well as quite a few other smaller changes.   Perhaps a good start would be to look at the costs of just doing the work needed, taking careful account of the risks involved (there are bound to be a lot of structural unknowns in a house that's been around for around 90 years) and then comparing the costing for doing that with the costing for a rebuild.  Apart from the VAT gain for a new build, there is also the fact that you start with a clean slate, so can get exactly the house you want (within the limitations imposed by the plot).  We tend to want different things from a house now than we did in the 1930's, like more space for appliances, changed usage of living spaces, etc, so there may well be some gain in value from a new build, that offers something that better suits what people look for in a house today.

 

Is there any specific reason for not increasing the ridge height?  Planning policies can restrict this, but there may be a valid argument that can be made to support increasing it, and giving more usable volume.  A lot will depend on the local street scene, and whether a larger, taller, house would fit in with neighbouring properties.  Might be an idea to see if you can get pre-application advice from your local planners.  Sadly many local authorities now charge for this, but it can be money well spent, in terms of gaining a better understanding as to whether your proposal is likely to be acceptable.  Always worth bearing in mind that there is a assumption that panning consent will always be granted unless there is a valid policy reason to refuse.  It doesn't seem like this at times, but that is how planning law is worded.

[Temp]

If its been uninhabited for more than 2 years (and remains uninhabited until after work starts) then the refurbishment should be rated 5% VAT. To get this rate you would need to hire a contractor to do all the work and supply materials. He should only charge you 5% VAT. There is no reclaim scheme. You cannot move in until after work starts (or it wont qualify).

 

If its been empty 10 years the its zero rated.

Edited August 17, 2019 by Temp

[Ped]

Thank you for this advice. You mention I must hire a contractor. Does that prevent me doing the works and keeping the cost down?  I have a VAT registered company myself. So could I be the main contractor?

 

Edited August 19, 2019 by Ped

[Ped]

On 16/08/2019 at 18:01, Russell griffiths said:

The time you have altered it and faffed about, you may as well cut the whole roof off and use attic trusses, get a crane

in and get it all up in a few days, cover the lot in a scaffolding tent to save losing anytime over winter. 

 

Sorry for the dumb question, but can you get these prefabricated to meet the specifications of with a new dormer at the rear?

[PeterW]

16 minutes ago, Ped said:

 

Sorry for the dumb question, but can you get these prefabricated to meet the specifications of with a new dormer at the rear?

 

Yep - a good truss manufacturer will design it for you, most likely the dormer will be a part built section and need assembly and some cutting on site. Don’t be tempted to use one of the pre-formed GRP dormers as they are crap. 

[Onoff]

Roof off and new trusses craned on is an option for my dormer bungalow I've thought about but tbh the ground floor layout isn't the ideal. Knock down and rebuild would be the ultimate. Still, that'll never happen so it's on with the snail's pace "room at a time"!

 

 

You might be interested in this software that shows the common truss shapes you can get. (The free demo is only good up to 5m span and you can't print out with it):

 

http://www.runet-software.com/WOODexpress.htm

 

[Oz07]

Check it out but usually you get 5% vat on over2 year empty properties. No reclaim scheme though so has to be invoiced through contractor.  Ok if you have your own firm not so great otherwise. 

 

I'd prefer starting from scratch but you'd have to do the sums 

[andyscotland]

4 hours ago, Ped said:

Thank you for this advice. You mention I must hire a contractor. Does that prevent me doing the works and keeping the cost down?  I have a VAT registered company myself. So could I be the main contractor?

 

You probably could be, but:

 

* You'd need to be very clear that your company was charging you properly (+VAT) for what it did to make sure the work is visibly part of your company's trading. You can't claim VAT back on things that don't relate to a taxable supply made by your business

* Your company would have to be providing (and charging for) the labour as the reduced vat rate is not available if supplying materials only. Nothing to stop you paying the company for your time but you'd have to think about the tax implications of how to get the money back out of the company.

* It would probably trigger various other compliance things - safety regulations (CDM), insurance, possibly construction industry employer registration - which might well attract costs and/or hassle

* If the amounts involved were substantial compared to your normal trading, the one-off bump might well trigger HMRC to come and have a look so you would want to have everything very carefully documented to be able to show it was all being done on an "arm's length" basis

* You may have less comeback on some supplies of materials as the regulations covering selling to the general public don't usually apply to business-to-business sales (one reason some places are trade only). Could be an issue with warranties / returns / etc from some suppliers.

 

So in principle yes, especially if your firm is already in the construction trade as some things may already be covered. In practice, exercise caution and probably speak to your accountant.

[Ped]

Just been told that we would get no council tax relief on the property, despite it being totally uninhabitable. ? Good news, I think, is that the local council will gift up to £25k as an interest free loan for renovation. Now investigating VAT exempt schemes for energy improvements. Any advice on this?

 

[Ferdinand]

"Interest free loan" does not sound very "gifted". ?

 

The Council probably view that the previous person had the discount.

 

You may get it off the VOA list by disconnecting things or gutting it, but that may be such a battle that you would be better off doing a sponsored unicycle to Coldstream in December and back to get the same money. 

 

Ferdinand

Edited August 20, 2019 by Ferdinand

[Ferdinand]

I think I would look at doing the downstairs reno yourself, and having a contracytor do the big stuff.

 

Mine was gutted to 3 walls and a hole by the previous owner and they extended in two directions and added 3 beds and a bath upstairs. Generally a good job, but it took about 3-4 years. Then they moved out within 3 years.

 

So do not underestimate the value of time living happily in your renovated house drinking cocktails as opposed to spending your evenings and weekends working on it. The idea is that living the dream aims to be a larger chunk of your life than building the dream.

 

Have a look at moduloft, who bring the whole new floor in sections, and you probably have more local less radical options who will nevertheless do the whole loft bit for you.

 

IMO think about renovating the existing to at least current building regs for newbuild for each element, and probably better. Then when you have to compromise on one or two things you still have a liveable house.

 

Ferdinand

 

 

 

 

Edited August 20, 2019 by Ferdinand

[Gone West]

2 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

So do not underestimate the value of time living happily in your renovated house drinking cocktails as opposed to spending your evenings and weekends working on it. The idea is that living the dream aims to be a larger chunk of your life than building the dream.

How true.