Constructian Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 (edited) Hi, I am new to this site and not sure if this is how you introduce yourself. Anyway, I am not very experienced at DIY and am looing for a little guidance. I am fitting some shelves in my garage and wanted advice on the timbers to use. The shelves will span the width of the garage above the up and over door. I want to put all the "junk" we keep in case we need it up there like carpet offcuts, left over guttering, cat basket etc, so don't anticipate there being more than 200kg in total supported there. Garage is 2700mm wide and I wanted to fix a wall plate 2440mm long to each side wall above the garage door and then span across with 4No: joists, two at the front of the garage to take 600mm wide ply or MDF shelf and then two at the other end of the wall plates to take a similar shelf. I would also then put a shelf running the length of each wall plate again 600mm wide to complete the "square" of shelves. The garage has been plastered and the left hand wall is the original external house wall and is sound facing bricks/Cavity/Bricks. The right side wall is a cavity wall again but the internal skin is lightweight blocks/cavity/facing bricks. I want to bolt the wall plate timber to the wall and I had thought to use a threaded 12mm x 160mm BZP bolt epoxied into 14mm holes drilled into the bricks/blocks. Looking to get 80mm into these so I don't pop out into the cavity. Then fixing a 45mm x 170mm wall plate on to the bolts with holes about 100mm down in timber so not near top. Then using timber to timber joist hangers nailed with easy twist joist nails 3.75mm x 30mm. The joists I was thinking of would be 45mm x 120mm and be set so that top of these was level with the top of the wall plate. Then some 18mm MDF cut to 600mm wide to board out. Can you help me select: A. right size timbers for wall plate and spanning joists. B. Right bolts? Edited August 8, 2019 by Constructian Added Photo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSharp01 Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 Welcome to THE forum. Do you have pic of the space above the door, I am struggling to be sure I have a clear picture of what you are trying to do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 600mm wide shelfs will need to be very thick or lots of support brackets . -you can get a lot ofr weight ona 600mm shelf -so really you should be thinking of same spacings as floor joists --16" unless you not going to fill the shelves . mdf --NOt my choice it will bend over time real wood or 1" plywood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constructian Posted August 8, 2019 Author Share Posted August 8, 2019 Added picture of garage. When garage door opens the closest to the ceiling it gets is 680mm. So I figured I would have at least 500mm of space above the shelving allowing 150mm for the support joists. I was thinking of 5 bolts resined into each side wall at 500mm centres. Would that be enough? In reply to scottishjohn, I could reduce centres of the joists and have 3 at 300mm centres at the front of the garage and the same further into the garage. Just depends on if the 45mm x 120mm joists would be up to it or not. Is this a deep enough section? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constructian Posted August 8, 2019 Author Share Posted August 8, 2019 1 hour ago, scottishjohn said: 600mm wide shelfs will need to be very thick or lots of support brackets . -you can get a lot ofr weight ona 600mm shelf -so really you should be thinking of same spacings as floor joists --16" unless you not going to fill the shelves . mdf --NOt my choice it will bend over time real wood or 1" plywood OK. Would 18mm hardwood ply be OK? And I'd put 3 joists under the 610mm width. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 So you want a big "platform" covering all the space above the garage door? To keep your joist sizes down can you find the roof / ceiling joists and fix hangers at mid point to help support the shelving system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 try it on the floor first and see how much deflection in the shelf with the weight you going stack on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 I used scaffold boards on a previous garage, I also used wires from ceiling joists at two intervals to stop them bending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constructian Posted August 8, 2019 Author Share Posted August 8, 2019 25 minutes ago, ProDave said: So you want a big "platform" covering all the space above the garage door? To keep your joist sizes down can you find the roof / ceiling joists and fix hangers at mid point to help support the shelving system? No, I didn't want the whole thing as a shelf. Just 610mm shelf along sides, 610mm shelf over door and another 610mm shelf further into garage, so I have a square hole in the middle to access things on these shelves. I didn't want to fix into the ceiling. primarily to keep the shelves free of anything limiting the items I put up there. I can see what you mean but I wanted clear space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 6 minutes ago, joe90 said: I used scaffold boards on a previous garage, I also used wires from ceiling joists at two intervals to stop them bending. That is an interesting idea. Kwikstage scaffold boards are rated to be "supported every 2.4M" Are any scaffold boards rated to span a 2.7M gap? Or (since you are not standing on them, just storing stuff) how much would a scaffold board bend if only supported at the ends of a 2.7M board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 Have a look at this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpd Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 I just built (yesterday) a 6m long shelf at 600mm wide and used some left over 22mm chip / flooring board. Had a continuous wall plate at the back out of 3x2 and a big 6x2 along the front with 3x2 ties from the front up to the roof joists at about 1200mm intervals. It’s stacked up with loads of stuff, but it’s really great to have won the space from below. I was walking / crawling around in it and it did not flex on bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 If it was me I would be inclined to find the joists in the roof and screw a joist to them, and then create a drop wall down along the entire open side of the “box” so that it supports the shelf on its whole edge. This will give you something to stop you pushing stuff off the back of the shelf, and really strengthen the whole lot. Have you considered lighting too, as looking at that picture your double tube fluorescent is where your shelf needs to be. Consider a square panel LED in the middle of the opening so you can see to access things. For real strength, glue and screw the shelf boards to the joists, and use a decent foaming D4 glue and your shelves will go nowhere ..!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 4 hours ago, ProDave said: would a scaffold board bend if only supported at the ends of a 2.7M board. Depends on what you store, carpet is heavy, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constructian Posted August 9, 2019 Author Share Posted August 9, 2019 Thanks for these ideas. I will have to think about what I will do. Lighting using LED lights is the way to go for sure. The twin fluorescent strip will be near the middle of my planned shelving. So I will augment it with some led once shelving is up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constructian Posted August 20, 2019 Author Share Posted August 20, 2019 Thanks for these ideas. I will have to think about what I will do. Lighting using LED lights is the way to go for sure. The twin fluorescent strip will be near the middle of my planned shelving. So I will augment it with some led once shelving is up. Well the shelving is up and all good. I have been up on the shelves while I was fixing the shelf to the joists and no movement at all. I also hung from each joist and they barely bent at all. in the end I went with 120x47x2400 wall plates and 95x47x2700 joists (cut down from 3000 to fit) using M12x160 resin anchors five per wall plate, 12mm hardwood ply for shelves fixed down with 5.0x40 twin cut multi purpose screws - 6 per sheet. I am very pleased with the result. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpd Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 Looks fantastic, nice work mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constructian Posted August 23, 2019 Author Share Posted August 23, 2019 On 20/08/2019 at 16:22, Cpd said: Looks fantastic, nice work mate. Thank you Cpd. I feel very good about these shelves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSS Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 For someone whose opening statement said they were not very experienced in DIY, looks like you've done a pretty professional job ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constructian Posted August 23, 2019 Author Share Posted August 23, 2019 15 minutes ago, NSS said: For someone whose opening statement said they were not very experienced in DIY, looks like you've done a pretty professional job ? It must be due to proper planning. Not jumping in before thinking through potential points for errors. Then getting all the materials and thinking through the order for construction which identified things to be aware of before an error occurred. Final result better than I had hopped for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 Just now, Constructian said: It must be due to proper planning. Not jumping in before thinking through potential points for errors. Then getting all the materials and thinking through the order for construction which identified things to be aware of before an error occurred. Final result better than I had hopped for. Most of us look round to see what scraps we have left over and make the best we can with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSS Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 25 minutes ago, ProDave said: Most of us look round to see what scraps we have left over and make the best we can with that. Still working my way through the leftover timber from our build. So far it has provided the framework for our raised deck area, base for a log cabin, base for shed, base for pyramid greenhouse, garage and shed shelving, and veg trug (see below). I'm now at the point of inventing jobs to use it for, such as the hedgehog house! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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