New Phone Line/Broadband: trench and ducting req'ts?

[Piers]

Does anyone know if Openreach have any (annoyingly precise) requirements for ducting in trenches when laying a new phone line?

 

We're planning to dig our own trench across our garden (40m long by 30cm deep) from new building to base of telephone pole and stick in some cheap plastic ducting (50mm maybe). 

 

I'm conscious that utility providers can be funny about depth and type of ducting. It'd be blimmin' annoying for Openreach to turn up and tell us we've done the wrong thing.

 

And before someone tells me to call my ISP or Openreach - I've tried! BT tell me that Openreach will "sort it out on the day". Openreach said its "site dependent". I explained what the site looked like and the guy said, "the engineer will tell you on the day".

 

 

[Jeremy Harris]

Openreach insisted that all 'phone duct was their (free issue) Duct 56.  This is the grey rigid stuff, that has slip joints at the ends.  They supplied all the Duct 56 needed (in fact around 50% more than was needed - I still have loads of it left over), together with hockey sticks to bring it up inside the house and outside at the base of the pole.  We dug the trenches and laid the duct according to their spec, which mainly means keeping it clear from power cables (I think they need it to be around 300mm away from any power cable).

 

I think that some have had a more flexible approach from Openreach, but they were pretty adamant that we had to use their Duct 56.

[ProDave]

Yes Open Reach should free issue the cable and duct to you.

 

There are some regional variations, e.g up here, they still use SWA 6 pair phone cable that can be buried direct. We only used the Duct 56 for under the road crossing.

[Temp]

Yeah we buried SWA direct. Wish I had installed a duct but they didn't insist on one when we did our house. Never likely to be offered fibre to the home around here.

[Temp]

Just for info there is an Approved Document R that covers the entry point..

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/high-speed-electronic-communications-networks-approved-document-r

[Redoctober]

Same as others above, we were given the name and number of the local Openreach guy. He supplied ducting and cable. Once done, they came and made the necessary connections and BT came to connect to the house - all free of charge.

[Piers]

Thanks all. Very helpful.

 

We weren't given any contact details for Openreach. They just told us that they'll turn up on a certain date between 1pm and 6pm to complete the install. Guess we'll contact their main contact number and see how we get on.

 

Whilst on the subject of Openreach, has anyone got any experience of having an overhead phone line moved underground? 

 

We've have 2 telegraph poles in our garden, that carried both power and phone line and we want to get rid of them. I've managed to get SSE to remove their power lines and we've run our own SWA underground.

 

But Openreach are asking £300+VAT just to conduct a site survey and then provide a quote for the works.

 

One of the reasons we want to get the phone line down is to cut down a tree. I must confess I'm somewhat tempted to drop the tree on the line, cut down the telegraph poles and when they come out to fix the line, tell them I want them to run the replacement cable underground.....and TA-DAAA....there's a fresh trench with duct waiting for them.

 

But it's a bit of sh*t's trick and if I was on the other side I'd want to punish me with a hefty bill for damaging their equipment.

 

There must be a better way?

 

 

[jamieled]

I've heard of a few tree cutting jobs where at BT line was hit. There was a charge/fine for it.

[Piers]

14 minutes ago, jamieled said:

I've heard of a few tree cutting jobs where at BT line was hit. There was a charge/fine for it.

 

Any idea how much?

 

£300 or more?!

[redtop]

no but i can well imagine £300 wont come close....

[jamieled]

£400 I believe. I think the cutting company took it out the wages of the poor bloke who did it!

[Jeremy Harris]

59 minutes ago, Piers said:

Whilst on the subject of Openreach, has anyone got any experience of having an overhead phone line moved underground? 

 

We've have 2 telegraph poles in our garden, that carried both power and phone line and we want to get rid of them. I've managed to get SSE to remove their power lines and we've run our own SWA underground.

 

But Openreach are asking £300+VAT just to conduct a site survey and then provide a quote for the works.

 

One of the reasons we want to get the phone line down is to cut down a tree. I must confess I'm somewhat tempted to drop the tree on the line, cut down the telegraph poles and when they come out to fix the line, tell them I want them to run the replacement cable underground.....and TA-DAAA....there's a fresh trench with duct waiting for them.

 

But it's a bit of sh*t's trick and if I was on the other side I'd want to punish me with a hefty bill for damaging their equipment.

 

There must be a better way?

 

 

 

 

Yes, we did exactly this.

 

We had a pole that was in the way, together with power and phone cables that draped over the plot and restricted what we could do with the big digger.  The first stage is to identify who owns the pole(s).  In our case, the pole belonged to SSE (had a sign on it, and was engraved with an SSE reference number) so I contacted SSE initially.  They agreed to move the pole and allow the power cable to be re-routed underground, for an agreed price.  Our ground works chap dug the trenches and laid ducting and SSE provided new power cable that was pulled through, then SSE turned up and placed a new pole in the corner of our plot, connected the new underground cables and removed the overhead cables.  They left the 'phone cables on the old pole.

 

I then called Openreach and had a real battle to get them to do anything.  Eventually I got hold of the mobile number for the local engineer, who was great.  He told me that moving the 'phone cables would be free of charge, as it was SSE moving their pole that had caused the need for them to be moved.  He free issued Duct 56 and cable, I agreed to lay it all underground and he then tried to organise the removal of the overhead wires and the connection of the underground ones.  This was a real PITA, as jobs like this are a very low priority for Openreach, so we waited weeks for them to do the work.  In the end we absolutely had to have the overhead wire down, as it was holding up the build, so we were advised that if there was an "accident" on site that brought the wire down, Openreach would come out straight away to fix it.  As luck would have it, the digger jib accidentally snagged the wire first thing one morning, and an hour later Openreach were on site connecting the new cables up...

 

I then struggled to get anyone to remove the old pole, with SSE telling me it was their property, me telling them to get it off our land, and them ignoring me.  In the end I slipped a few pounds to an Openreach Polecat crew who were replacing a pole in the village and they pulled the pole out and laid it down in our verge, where it now sits, staked in place, as a barrier for tractor tyres.

[Piers]

Thank you @JSHarris, as it happens I'm awfully clumsy with a chainsaw

 

I'll have a word with my local Openreach chap and ask for the ducting

 

 

 

[Ed Davies]

Why does the expression“third world” float into my mind?

[Temp]

My builder reckoned it was best just to run your own cable to the bottom of the pole and leave enough spare coiled up to reach the top. We had issues getting openreach to come out but once they arrived they were happy to connect up the cable we supplied.

[Piers]

So.....6 weeks later and the new phone line has finally been installed. I've had numerous visits and met the full gamut of Openreach engineers and their mates from Kelly Communications. I reckon that we've had 5-6 engineer visits (that we've seen) plus another 1-2 who've just worked at the cabinet. Can't be much money in it, as the total cost from BT for the new connection was £70!

 

Happily for me, as it's taken 6 weeks they've had to stump up £210 in compensation.

 

 

[Piers]

For my next trick I'm looking to cancel the new BT connection (within 14 day cooling off period innit) and sign up to a service that does free calls to mobiles (Now Broadband).

 

I've run into a problem and hoping someone might have encountered it before or have some clever ideas.

 

I now have 2 lines into my property: 1 to the house and 1 (the new one) to our outbuilding.

 

We're in contract with BT for another 9 months at the house and so can't jump ship. However the new connection to the outbuilding, which has a separate phone and account number, can be cancelled within 14 days of activation (earlier this week).

 

The problem is that both lines are registered at the same address and the potential new ISP tells me that if they try to take over the outbuilding line, they'll get both. And this will trigger any early exit fees (or I'll just pay twice). 

 

They suggested I register a new postal address with Openreach and get the new line assigned to that address.

 

My address is: "Grey Cottage, ABC Road, Town, County, WX12 3YZ" and my plan is to try to get the outbuilding registered as "The Studio, Grey Cottage, ABC etc...."

 

So, I'm now in the process of trying to work out how this can be done....

 

I've filled in a generic broadband enquiry form with Openreach and am waiting to see if this is the route to take (this was suggested by the ISP)

 

Has anyone ever done anything similar? 

 

 

 

As an aside, I'm moderately terrified that if it all goes wrong and the world turns against me that I could receive a council tax bill at the new address. And that would be a complete nuisance to unpick. I'm counting on Openreach not sharing address data with other organisations except ISPs. I really don't want to create a proper new postal address for what is essentially a glorified garden shed!