Single Room Air Conditioner or similar

[Ferdinand]

I need a device to keep one room rather cooler than the temperature the house is currently running at. 

Can anyone comment on technologies, or recommend best options?

 

Since I have plenty of solar, I can be a little less cautious about power consumption etc, though obviously the less the better.

 

In reality, I am probably after something portable - though I can consider options. I certainly do not have the outside unit a la Jeremy. The particular room only has an outside strip of wall perhaps 18" wide, as the rest is boundary with next door.

 

Thanks
 

Ferdinand

Edited July 24, 2019 by Ferdinand

[Jeremy Harris]

I have a portable unit, which we bought a few years ago to use at the old house.  Sort of OK, but a bit of a pain to use, for a couple of reasons.  Firstly, you need to open a door or window to lead the exhaust hose out through.  Secondly, they suck air out of the (cooled) room to pass through the heat exchanger and so onwards to the exhaust hose.  This means that warm air gets constantly drawn in from outside, often through the same door/window that the exhaust hose is led out through, with the risk that some of that air will be warmer than outside, because of the hot exhaust.

 

I got around this in part, by making up a bit of plywood with a hole in for the exhaust hose.  This was wedged tightly in a window opening, and reduced the warm air drawn back in.  Not ideal, because warm air was still pulled in from elsewhere.

 

Somewhere I saw a unit that got around this problem by using two air ducts to outside, one drawing in air to feed the heat exchanger, the other being the hot air exhaust.  It had the advantage that it didn't mix the air being used to pump heat out with the room air, so didn't create the inward warm air draft problem that the portable unit creates.  The snag is that the one I saw wasn't designed to be portable, but that might not be insurmountable.  It might be possible to fix one of these to a bit of plywood that could be secured in a door or window frame, so it could be dismounted when not needed, or when leaving the house (for security reasons).  I'll see if I can find a link to it.

 

Found it:  https://www.orionairsales.co.uk/unico-easy-sf-fixed-air-conditioning-unit-cooling-only-no-outdoor-unit-2kw--7000btu-a-240v50hz-5376-p.asp

Edited July 24, 2019 by JSHarris
Found link to unit

[lizzie]

Ive had a portable in the past. Ideal for a single room and can be moved about.  About the size of an under counter fridge and on wheels.  Mine had a large flexible hose that vented via a window.  It had a sort of slim slot end that fitted into the open window space and then gap packed with foam or something....airtighness not relevant there is no need to be precious about fitting it, its temporary and portable.  TBh I never bothered to pack the gap it worked well enough without probably just used a bit more power. Mine was condensing so no issues with emptying water tanks.

 

I am thinking of getting a new one just for occasional use ..at the mo I am running my dysons in the bedroom and tv snug as too hot in there.....large living area was 29 degrees at 10pm last night, way too hot even with benefit of film on windows so we are not using that area at mo.

[Ferdinand]

Hmmm I do have a 400mm wide "alley" down the side of my conservatory which adjoins this room at the end.

 

Is 400mm enough to mount one of these split units on the Garden Wall (block) sideways.

 

It sounds horribly tight.

 

To get out of the alley would require about 3.5m of pipe run.

 

Do any of the internal units have remote controls - the extra comfort is for a room for a older family member.

 

Ferdinand

Edited July 24, 2019 by Ferdinand

[Ferdinand]

The room has no external windows - just a double french door into the conservatory, which then has a further double to to outside and some opening windows, and a double door into the (large - 4.5m x 5.5m) kitchen. Conservatory and kitchen are on the N side.

 

It is the classic somewhat-inner room you get with a fat-at-the-back extension. I just built the (PP obtained by previous owner) conservatory to be 18" in from the boundary rather than on the boundary as in the PP.

 

So may need to reconsider.

 

Swamp Cooler?

Edited July 24, 2019 by Ferdinand

[jack]

7 minutes ago, lizzie said:

large living area was 29 degrees at 10pm last night

 

Blimmin' flip 

[Jeremy Harris]

13 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

Hmmm I do have a 400mm wide "alley" down the side of my conservatory which adjoins this room at the end.

 

Is 400mm enough to mount one of these split units on the Garden Wall (block) sideways.

 

It sounds horribly tight.

 

To get out of the alley would require about 3.5m of pipe run.

 

Do any of the internal units have remote controls - the extra comfort is for a room for a older family member.

 

Ferdinand

 

 

Yes, a small split would fit, but the unit I linked to isn't a split, all it needs are two holes through an outside wall, all the gubbins is inside.  It also has a remote, I believe.

[lizzie]

12 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

The room has no external windows - just a double french door into the conservatory, which then has a further double to to outside and some opening windows, and a double door into the (large - 4.5m x 5.5m) kitchen. Conservatory and kitchen are on the N side.

 

It is the classic somewhat-inner room you get with a fat-at-the-back extension. I just built the (PP obtained by previous owner) conservatory to be 18" in from the boundary rather than on the boundary as in the PP.

 

So may need to reconsider.

 

Swamp Cooler?

No swamp cooler nasty things breed bugs.  Have a look at the dyson range of air coolers, pricey and not as good as proper aircon but I have one and it makes the bedroom usable for me, no venting its just a portable unit.

[Jeremy Harris]

Just found the brochure for the indoor room unit that just needs two holes through to an outside wall (no external unit needed): https://drive.google.com/file/d/1d3pQBX6rWc0c8inlgs22ZN1uJL2yNSXi/view

 

Looks pretty neat and easy to fit, just core drill two holes through the wall, screw the thing in place and then plug it in.

[lizzie]

2 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

Just found the brochure for the indoor room unit that just needs two holes through to an outside wall (no external unit needed): https://drive.google.com/file/d/1d3pQBX6rWc0c8inlgs22ZN1uJL2yNSXi/view

 

Looks pretty neat and easy to fit, just core drill two holes through the wall, screw the thing in place and then plug it in.

Jumping in here. Thanks @JSHarris they look brilliant.  I guess it just needs care where to drill through so you dont hit the timber frame?

[Jeremy Harris]

1 minute ago, lizzie said:

Jumping in here. Thanks @JSHarris they look brilliant.  I guess it just needs care where to drill through so you dont hit the timber frame?

 

Yes, the main thing would be to find where the studs in the frame are and then make sure that the holes are positioned in the clear space either side of one.  This should be fairly easy, as the internal service void battens are lined up with the frame studs, so a stud finder (or strong magnet to find the plasterboard screws) should be able to locate exactly where the studs are.  The only other thing needed would be a nearby power outlet to connect the unit to.

 

One of these is slightly noisier than a split unit, I think, because it has the compressor inside the house, but it's probably a lot quieter than a portable air conditioner.

[PeterW]

Unico Units are really nice - manufactured in Italy, and are very neat at 16cm thick.

 

https://www.olimpiasplendid.com/download_area?name=Air Conditioners Without Outdoor Unit&id=1105

Edited July 24, 2019 by PeterW
added correct link

[Ed Davies]

 

[ProDave]

We have a portable AC unit, bought years ago in a CPC sale.  It is damned noisy and as has been pointed out it is hard to exhaust the hot air without letting outside hot air back in.

 

We do however use it quite a lot as a dehumidifier, for which it is much better suited.

[lizzie]

17 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Unico Units are really nice - manufactured in Italy, and are very neat at 16cm thick.

 

https://www.olimpiasplendid.com/download_area?name=Air Conditioners Without Outdoor Unit&id=1105

Really like the look of these....challenge will be in finding suitable person to fit one given I struggle to find handyman for even most basic of jobs.  Not just me my friends in this area have the same problem. We live in a black hole for ‘men what do’.

 

I guess finding studs as @JSHarris kindly explains is one aspect, if I go out the rendered side (which would be best) then there are battens and render boards too.  I’m sure its doable for right person.  

 

Were I doing a build again I would not go for MVHR I would look at the systems that combine cool/heat/vent like the Unico small vent system I have just been browsing.  Their UK agents are only about 15 miles from me too......wish I had known then what I know now etc

[Jeremy Harris]

Re: MVHR, we find that most of the time the Genvex combined MVHR and air-to-air heat pump does a pretty good job of keeping things cool and comfortable.  The main advantage is that it's completely silent at night, yet still delivers cooled air to the bedrooms.  The snag with it is that it doesn't have enough cooling capacity to deal with really hot weather.

 

Re: the Unico unit fitting, this doesn't seem to need a lot of skill to fit.  I suspect it comes with a fitting template that can be used to mark where the holes need to be, and the best way to do this might be to locate the stud positions inside the house, make sure the holes aren't likely to hit any services (shouldn't do, as wiring and plumbing runs should be fairly self-evident from the position of stuff), then use a long drill to drill a pilot hole right though the wall from inside to outside.  The big holes can then be cut out with a large hole saw, working from both inside and outside to get a neat finish and not cause damage to the render.

 

The most important detail would be sealing up around the ducts where they go through the wall.  Probably best to over-size the hole in the plasterboard, so that there's room to apply sealant around the ducts where they go out through the vapour tight board that forms the inside skin of the structure.  Sealing outside is simpler, as it looks as if there are grills that fit after sealing around the ducts.

[PeterW]

29 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

I suspect it comes with a fitting template that can be used to mark where the holes need to be

 

Yep they do - quite detailed too 

 

[Gone West]

1 hour ago, JSHarris said:

we find that most of the time the Genvex combined MVHR and air-to-air heat pump does a pretty good job of keeping things cool and comfortable.

Does your unit have heating and cooling set up on your Genvex Optima controller or did you alter the settings on the unit?

[Jeremy Harris]

1 minute ago, PeterStarck said:

Does your unit have heating and cooling set up on your Genvex Optima controller or did you alter the settings on the unit?

 

 

Yes, the Optima automatically switches between heating and cooling as needed.  There's a built in 3°C minimum hysteresis in cooling mode, though, so the set point needs to be 3°C lower if you want the cooling to come on.  The manual says this is for economy, as cooling costs money, but it's an annoying feature in my view, especially as we're pretty much always generating more than enough to cover the power used by the Genvex when we need cooling.

[Gone West]

1 minute ago, JSHarris said:

Yes, the Optima automatically switches between heating and cooling as needed.

I don't seem to have that option which surprises me as I would have assumed the Combi would have a similar MVHR and EASHP.

[Jeremy Harris]

34 minutes ago, PeterStarck said:

I don't seem to have that option which surprises me as I would have assumed the Combi would have a similar MVHR and EASHP.

 

That's odd, I'd have though the same as you.  If you go into the user menu on yours, do the two cooling options show in positions 2 and 3?  On ours, the second menu item sets the hysteresis in cooling mode (defaults to 3°C) and the third menu option selects whether to turn cooling on and off automatically or not (ours is set to ON).

[Ferdinand]

unfortunately the only Unico that fits my wallspace is the tower version, which looks even more expensive than the normal normal £1200-1500 in the range. I will not get that past the authorities for cooling a single room.

 

So it is perhaps looking like Jeremy’s option, and running the ducting for a few m down by the conservatory.

 

F

Edited July 24, 2019 by Ferdinand

[Gone West]

1 hour ago, JSHarris said:

 

That's odd, I'd have though the same as you.  If you go into the user menu on yours, do the two cooling options show in positions 2 and 3?  On ours, the second menu item sets the hysteresis in cooling mode (defaults to 3°C) and the third menu option selects whether to turn cooling on and off automatically or not (ours is set to ON).

No on mine position 2 is for water temperature and position 3 is for turning the immersion on/off. I guess having water heating via the EASHP doesn't allow cooling for some reason. Maybe there is some physical reason that prevents the EASHP swapping from heating water to cooling air.

Edited July 24, 2019 by PeterStarck

[Jeremy Harris]

24 minutes ago, PeterStarck said:

No on mine position 2 is for water temperature and position 3 is for turning the immersion on/off. I guess having water heating via the EASHP doesn't allow cooling for some reason. Maybe there is some physical reason that prevents the EASHP swapping from heating water to cooling air.

 

 

I think you're right, that it's related to the water heating.  Might be worth asking Genvex if there's any way to enable cooling, though.  It may be that this is an option, perhaps like the one on our ASHP, that can be enabled, perhaps with a change to the firmware.  The firmware for the Optima is on the SD card that plugs in to the underside, so it might be worth asking Genvex if this can be changed.

[lizzie]

5 hours ago, JSHarris said:

Re: MVHR, we find that most of the time the Genvex combined MVHR and air-to-air heat pump does a pretty good job of keeping things cool and comfortable.  The main advantage is that it's completely silent at night, yet still delivers cooled air to the bedrooms.  The snag with it is that it doesn't have enough cooling capacity to deal with really hot weather.

 

Re: the Unico unit fitting, this doesn't seem to need a lot of skill to fit.  I suspect it comes with a fitting template that can be used to mark where the holes need to be, and the best way to do this might be to locate the stud positions inside the house, make sure the holes aren't likely to hit any services (shouldn't do, as wiring and plumbing runs should be fairly self-evident from the position of stuff), then use a long drill to drill a pilot hole right though the wall from inside to outside.  The big holes can then be cut out with a large hole saw, working from both inside and outside to get a neat finish and not cause damage to the render.

 

The most important detail would be sealing up around the ducts where they go through the wall.  Probably best to over-size the hole in the plasterboard, so that there's room to apply sealant around the ducts where they go out through the vapour tight board that forms the inside skin of the structure.  Sealing outside is simpler, as it looks as if there are grills that fit after sealing around the ducts.

I am keen to explore getting one or more of these units installed.....living area and bedroom.  At the mo I am running 3 dyson air coolers which are helpful in making things bearable but just really give a cocoon of personal cooling not whole room.

 

How does aircon fit with mvhr running at the same time.....does it cause balance problems do you know? How are you treating your mvhr with your new aircon in action.