Management Route Maze

[Dan F]

We are currently waiting on our planning application and therefore starting to think about how we are actually going to manage the build when the time comes.

 

We have started talking to different project managers and quickly released that there are lots of ways of doing this, and it's a bit of a maze trying to work out what might make the most sense for our circumstances!  Given this, I'm wondering what "build-hubber's" that have gone down this path before would recommend.

 

Out context is as followings:

- We will likely be using MBC slab+frame package.

- We are renting a 10min drive from our site.

- We ideally need things to go as smoothly/quickly as possible. (every month that goes past is more rent and council tax)

- We are interested in ensuring we achieve high-quality work.

- We are keen, especially if we are investing in a PH system and triple-glazing, to try to only work with contractors that understand/care about maintaining airtightness and avoiding thermal bridges, etc.

- Cost saving would be great, but the speed/efficiency is a higher priority.

- We don't have any construction experience personally.

- We want to be fairly involved in decision making and may be keen to get specialist contractors in for MHVR/heating/PV etc.

 

It seems we have two decisions:

 

1) How we organize or split-up the work

 

a) Go through a single tender process and engage of a single main contractor for the whole project.

b) Split the project into three packages i) groundworks ii) MBC iii) roofing/cladding/fit-out and do the tender and contract for each of these.

c) Use individual trades

 

2) Who we engage to help us

 

We've also had discussions with different people, whose roles I'd categorize as follows:

 

a) Main contractor direct (without engaging a separate project manager).

b) A project manager that isn't a construction specialist but works with QS and main contractor(s) and acts as a customer advocate, plans/manages overall schedule as well as helps choose/source materials. Would visit the site weekly.  The main contractor is responsible for site/H&S, etc. 

c) A project manager that is a construction specialist and manages an overall schedule and works with QS and main contractor(s) to oversee the whole project. Visits the site weekly, The main contractor is responsible for site/H&S, etc.

d) A project management company that provides someone (potentially a bit more junior) to do c).

e) A hands-on project manager that is on-site 2-3 days a week managing individual trades and also fulfilling site management and H&S roles too.

 

(obviously some combinations of 1) and 2) don't make that much sense..)

 

Thoughts?

 

Thanks!!

Daniel

 

 

 

Edited June 20, 2019 by Dan Feist

[lizzie]

Be very careful who you choose if you go down private PM route  (your option e may be closest)........your context is exactly ours MBC house, renting 10 mins away, no experience etc etc. Go and talk to previous clients face to face...ones where the job is finished not part way through ideally as then they can give you an honest opinion without needing to keep anyone on side to finish the job.

 

I wont go into the nightmare we ended up in as everyone on here is bored with it.  Suffice to say I have things that are still not right and never can be now plus a huge cost over run due in no small part to errors and mistakes mainly caused by lack of proper supervision and knowledge from those who were in charge during the construction process. That large cost over run was on top of the many tens of thousands paid for management fees.

 

On a nicer note where are you building? Tell us a bit about it.

[ToughButterCup]

Keep your options as open as possible for  as long as possible. Model each on a spreadsheet.

Life will get in the way and help make the decisions for you.

 

Make yourself as comfortable as you can  skiing in front of an avalanche.

Avoid alcohol. ?

 

[epsilonGreedy]

There are two paths to take:

1. Federated, delegated division of responsibility.
2. Single point of trust to organize, do and deliver.

The more you spend on advisers and experts, the less money is left over in the pot for the doers. A gaggle of part time advisers might provide reassurance in the early stages but who will be on your side for the whole journey?

[Ferdinand]

46 minutes ago, AnonymousBosch said:

Keep your options as open as possible for  as long as possible. Model each on a spreadsheet.

Life will get in the way and help make the decisions for you.

 

Make yourself as comfortable as you can  skiing in front of an avalanche.

Avoid alcohol. ?

 

 

Don’t avoid alcohol. Or coffee.

 

Buy in normal quantities throughout the project.

 

Then invite all your BH colleagues for a week long party. 

 

The very thought !!!

Edited June 20, 2019 by Ferdinand

[Dan F]

 

 

 

 

 

3

45 minutes ago, lizzie said:

Be very careful who you choose if you go down private PM route  (your option e may be closest)........your context is exactly ours MBC house, renting 10 mins away, no experience etc etc. Go and talk to previous clients face to face...ones where the job is finished not part way through ideally as then they can give you an honest opinion without needing to keep anyone on side to finish the job.

 

Great advice.  Although I guess there are also risks with all of the routes I mentioned, rather than that route being riskier? Or would you disagree with that, and think a private PM managing individual trades is riskier?

 

We were leaning towards e) as you did, but wondering if b) or c) might actually be best *if* we like the main contractor and can think to trust them with PH-level TF and to finish to the quality level we'd expect after seeing some of their work.  b) is potentially interested as it's closest to us doing it ourselves.

 

 

 

 

45 minutes ago, lizzie said:

On a nicer note where are you building? Tell us a bit about it.

 

Wokingham, Berkshire.  Our planning application is here: http://publicaccess.wokingham.gov.uk/AniteIM.WebSearch/ExternalEntryPoint.aspx?SEARCH_TYPE=1&DOC_CLASS_CODE=PL&FOLDER1_REF=191468 .  Any thoughts/questions/feedback is more than welcome..

 

 

[epsilonGreedy]

The link above is suspect, it does not work and in that post cut & paste is also disabled.

[Jeremy Harris]

I'd agree with the point made by @lizzie.  I know of two self-builds where the directly employed project manager caused significant problems and cost over-runs.  I'm sure there are really good PMs around, as I had meetings with two either of which I'd have happily used, had our circumstances not changed.  It's really important to track down previous customers of any PM and see what they have to say.  One of the people I spoke to I heard about from another person who'd used him and recommended him, and a personal recommendation counts for a lot, in my view.

[Oldsteel]

So Dan I am interested in your decision, if you made it yet. We just got our planning permission and now at the stage, as you are, in figuring out how to do the build. In our previous build we employed a main contractor to do everything and wouldn’t go that route again. I would like to tag-team with a PM as we live next to the site, but PMs with experience of self-build are rare, and I am having trouble finding suitable candidates - we are in the Cotswolds. I like your list which lays out the options clearly, and we have many builders who have shown interest, so possible having a builder put up the shell, which is where I am least experienced, might be an option. I am happy to arrange second fix myself. Still undecided though! Where are you at?

[Dan F]

@Oldsteel We haven't decided yet.

 

We've ruled out:

- Typical tender process going out to local brick-and-block builders.

- Project managing ourselves.

 

We are considering:

- Project manager (but fees are significant, you potentially also need a site manager or working foreman and it's hard to prove the supposed cost savings up front. Also not keen on one-man PM)
- Splitting project into 3; groundworks, timber-frame, fit-out and finding a main contractor for each phase.

- Talking to hand-picked main contractors we've been recommended and/or who have timber-frame and passive house experience and getting them to price the job.

 

Rather than tender process, we are thinking of using a QS to split up the project into component parts and then get main contractors to price against this, as well as price other routes against this also for comparison.

 

Currently still talking to different people though. Where are you at?

 

Dan

 

Edited August 28, 2019 by Dan Feist

[Oldsteel]

@Dan Feist we are at exact same phase as you. I have pretty much discounted the PM route due to the difficulty of finding any suitable candidates. Lots of good builders around and available it seems, all expressing interest in our project for a start next year. BR drawings will be ready soon and I plan to send them to an estimating service to get benchmark costs to use when obtaining builders quotes.  We have already costed big ticket items such as windows, doors and heating system. Groundworks will be a significant part of our project as we are re-aligning the site boundary and the site is sloping in parts, so our options right now are:

 

Whole build - main contractor. Cost likely to be a big issue here.

Separate groundworks contractor then main contractor for the build

As above but have the builder put up the shell and then use subbies for the rest. I can help out here as I have an engineering background.

 

Having done a previous build our main aim now is to plan, plan and plan before starting any work! Discharging planning conditions right now. 

 

[Bramco]

@Dan F @Oldsteel

 

I'm assuming you have both completed the build by now, or are nearly there.

 

Any chance you could let us know how you decided to manage your projects and any insights on how they went?

 

We're about to start ours, structuring it an a similar way to @Dan Fs, groundworks, foundations and timber frame from MBC, metal roofing and cladding and the MVHR and ashp as packages and then a builder to do the internals. Trying to keep things as simple as possible. 

 

Simon

[Bored Shopper]

We took on a PM as he was the guy who designed our house and helped us with the planning permission. We had zero experience and probably had too little trust in ourselves.

Same as @lizzie, our experience with our PM was a costly disaster.

 

If I were to do another one, I'd go with a very good builder (now that we've got one), and PM ourselves. This is the only way I can see to get exactly what I want, have the right level of involvement in decision-making, have control over the project and procurement and not being taken for a ride on every aspect.

I admit, paperwork is tedious, lots of reading required, but manageable.

 

If we were to build something more complicated than a standard shoebox house, I'd probably have someone with strong knowledge of building regs on hand on a hourly fee to go to if I had a question, but not more than that.

What would be essential for us is having a very good bulding control officer who would be thorough enough to ensure no corners are cut.

[PeterW]

Depending on the construct of the actual contracts you have in place, I would go for a private BCO and a QS on an hourly basis contracted to 3 or 4 hours a week. The QS can do the value of work completed so you know what you are paying for, and the BCO keeps it in check with regs. 
 

With private companies you can pay for additional inspections as their fees schedule normally list costs for reinspections and other items. You can’t get that from Local Authority inspectors.