iSelfBuild Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 Hello Build Hubbers, So over the last year I have been meticulously researching and setting up a new business. The design and build of log cabins - my first project is a model which complies with the Scotland caravan act. Thus it is treated as a mobile home and 0% VAT rated. This is the second set of plans I have come up with after starting from scratch. I'm now very happy with the result. It's a 200mm round log cabin and this will be my show home and rented out to holiday makers. Can't wait to start building it and I plan to follow the whole process with a video blog. Really keen to hear peoples thoughts in terms of the design and suitability for holiday makers, any tips for making their stay extra special!? I will also be fitting a wood fired hot tub and BBQ hut with sauna extension. From research... it's not uncommon to achieve £1,000.00 rent a week for something of this standard - solid oak kitchen and furniture - going for a very high end standard. Scottish cottages gave me market data and their best performing 2 bed properties within 10 miles have an annual rental of £32,000.00 - they take 20% fee. If I could achieve anything like that I will be over the moon. PLOT_-_7-_FULL_SHEET-7 (1).pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 I am interested in the 0% VAT claim and how you are going to achieve that. With no building regs so no conventional "completion certificate" you can't do a VAT claim. So I assume you are doing this as a VAT registered company and zero rating it? Made of 200mm logs, that will take a BIG crane should you ever wish or need to move it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennentslager Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 Very nice look forward to seeing your blog? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
recoveringbuilder Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 This is something we have toyed with the idea of doing, how long do you expect it to take to get your initial outlay back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iSelfBuild Posted June 15, 2019 Author Share Posted June 15, 2019 7 minutes ago, ProDave said: I am interested in the 0% VAT claim and how you are going to achieve that. With no building regs so no conventional "completion certificate" you can't do a VAT claim. So I assume you are doing this as a VAT registered company and zero rating it? Made of 200mm logs, that will take a BIG crane should you ever wish or need to move it. Yes my company is VAT registered and the supply of BS3632 mobile homes is 0% rated. Oh yes, and I have the structural calculations to prove it is possible. Originally I explored doing the construction in one piece, but it definitely has to be 2 pieces. It's quite funny there is a few people doing this I know of and they do it in one piece and on a concrete raft... I think it's very questionable if that is truly compliant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadnaught Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 (edited) Nice design. Some comments on the layout: I assume the en-suite and bathroom windows will be frosted. How about roof windows instead, they let in more light? For the en-suite, it would allow a mirror over the sink. Will your roof makeup allow for roof windows? Is the entrance hall dark? Is the interior vaulted ceilings? Edited June 15, 2019 by Dreadnaught Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadnaught Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 Where would be the storage for things that are used on the veranda? e.g. folding tables, stackable chairs, cushions, etc. Perhaps swap the bathroom and store so the store room is nearer the veranda and perhaps make the store room accessible directly from the veranda? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iSelfBuild Posted June 15, 2019 Author Share Posted June 15, 2019 4 minutes ago, Christine Walker said: This is something we have toyed with the idea of doing, how long do you expect it to take to get your initial outlay back? 9 years to recoup cash in cash out. That is considering land and build costs, furnishings etc - no provision for my actual time and labour though. It will be about 11% Yield. I am a property investor and I usually look for 20% ROI and aim to pull out all of my money out of a deal through buying below market value, refurbishment and refinancing. If this was mortgageable I could quite easily pull all of my money out of the investment and make an infinite ROI. Unfortunately I have to leave all of my money in unless I use some creative refinancing. Considering it's my show home for my business and I will hopefully do further log cabin projects for clients then I'm happy to have the money tied up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 9 minutes ago, iSelfBuild said: Yes my company is VAT registered and the supply of BS3632 mobile homes is 0% rated. Oh yes, and I have the structural calculations to prove it is possible. Originally I explored doing the construction in one piece, but it definitely has to be 2 pieces. It's quite funny there is a few people doing this I know of and they do it in one piece and on a concrete raft... I think it's very questionable if that is truly compliant! I did some work for a local company specialising in this. They now do it properly and build their units in a factory and transport them to site as modules. But a few of their early builds were built on site and I remember one, when it was finished they fixed a bit of beading across the ceiling and down the walls to "show where the joint was" (cough) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iSelfBuild Posted June 15, 2019 Author Share Posted June 15, 2019 7 minutes ago, Dreadnaught said: Nice design. Some comments on the layout: I assume the en-suite and bathroom windows will be frosted. How about roof windows instead, they let in more light? For the en-suite, it would allow a mirror over the sink. Will your roof makeup allow for roof windows? Is the entrance hall dark? Is the interior vaulted ceilings? 1. Good plan, that window in the en-suite definitely needs some tweaking! Yes the roof is vaulted but I was planning to avoid roof lights due to the shallow roof pitch and purely the extra cost. 2. Again really valid point, should be shown as a fully glazed door. Probably a good idea to have a full height glazed sidelight as well. Thanks!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iSelfBuild Posted June 15, 2019 Author Share Posted June 15, 2019 7 minutes ago, Dreadnaught said: Where would be the storage for things that are used on the veranda? e.g. folding tables, stackable chairs, cushions, etc. Perhaps swap the bathroom and store so the store room is nearer the veranda and perhaps make the store room accessible directly from the veranda? Great ideas yet again I will give that some thought! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 1 minute ago, iSelfBuild said: 1. Good plan, that window in the en-suite definitely needs some tweaking! Yes the roof is vaulted but I was planning to avoid roof lights due to the shallow roof pitch and purely the extra cost. 2. Again really valid point, should be shown as a fully glazed door. Probably a good idea to have a full height glazed sidelight as well. Thanks!!! Be careful. The definition for a "caravan". does not impose a ridge height, but does impose a maximum ceiling height of 3 metres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iSelfBuild Posted June 15, 2019 Author Share Posted June 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, ProDave said: I did some work for a local company specialising in this. They now do it properly and build their units in a factory and transport them to site as modules. But a few of their early builds were built on site and I remember one, when it was finished they fixed a bit of beading across the ceiling and down the walls to "show where the joint was" (cough) Haha yes I have seen that done on a few projects. These guys have a really good method statement - 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iSelfBuild Posted June 15, 2019 Author Share Posted June 15, 2019 Just now, ProDave said: Be careful. The definition for a "caravan". does not impose a ridge height, but does impose a maximum ceiling height of 3 metres. 3048mm to be exact and that's designed into the unit. This results in a roof pitch of 13* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 7 minutes ago, iSelfBuild said: 3048mm to be exact and that's designed into the unit. This results in a roof pitch of 13* I thought the roof pitch looked steeper. I have seen one done with a 34 degree pitch and a much higher vaulted roof and the reply was "if anyone complains, we will fit a false ceiling at 3M and create a loft space" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 Dinning / Dining Your wheelchair accessible bathroom needs to be a shower room, unless you are providing a hoist and attendant. Do you have to apply for Change of Use PP to run it as a holiday rental business, even though no PP for the residential? F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iSelfBuild Posted June 15, 2019 Author Share Posted June 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, Ferdinand said: Dinning / Dining Your wheelchair accessible bathroom needs to be a shower room, unless you are providing a hoist and attendant. Do you have to apply for Change of Use PP to run it as a holiday rental business, even though no PP for the residential? F I don't believe mobile homes legally have to be fully disabled accessible? Correct me if I'm wrong though. However I am aiming to make it fully compliant so I shall consider that also. No change of use is required. The planning permission granted is for holiday homes/rentals - they actively encourage this in Dumfries & Galloway. There is a restriction on it being a main residency - no restriction on occupancy though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 (edited) 27 minutes ago, iSelfBuild said: I don't believe mobile homes legally have to be fully disabled accessible? Correct me if I'm wrong though. However I am aiming to make it fully compliant so I shall consider that also. No change of use is required. The planning permission granted is for holiday homes/rentals - they actively encourage this in Dumfries & Galloway. There is a restriction on it being a main residency - no restriction on occupancy though. That wasn’t the point. Perhaps I was not begin clear enough .. sorry. If someone is needing to use a wheelchair to get into the bathroom, then how will they bathe? Clearly they cannot climb into a bath. A wheel in or walk in capable shower will give you more market, and may give you a premium niche. perhaps amongst those with a frail grandparent or disabled family member, even respite care organisations. I have just redone one of my bathrooms .. downstairs ... to be a shower, because mum can use the shower, but not the bath. We have a walk in shower upstairs, but in due course she will have moved downstairs. If you want a bath, I would say a shower-bath in the en-suite. F Edited June 15, 2019 by Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iSelfBuild Posted June 15, 2019 Author Share Posted June 15, 2019 10 minutes ago, Ferdinand said: That wasn’t the point. Perhaps I was not begin clear enough .. sorry. If someone is needing to use a wheelchair to get into the bathroom, then how will they bathe? Clearly they cannot climb into a bath. A wheel in or walk in capable shower will give you more market, and may give you a premium niche. I have just redone one of my bathrooms to be a shower, because mum can use the shower, but not the bath. We have a walk in shower upstairs, but in due course she will have moved downstairs. If you want a bath, I would say a shower-bath in the en-suite. F Marketing wise the more boxes I tick the better and I would love to have it fully disabled compliant from an ethical standpoint. I'm definitely going to change it. Bath in the en-suite sounds good, I will slightly move the partition. Does anyone know of a well thought out side entry disabled accessible bathroom floor plan? Considering I likely will move the store position to the bathroom then the accessible clear floor space eats into half the room straight away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 22 minutes ago, iSelfBuild said: Marketing wise the more boxes I tick the better and I would love to have it fully disabled compliant from an ethical standpoint. I'm definitely going to change it. Bath in the en-suite sounds good, I will slightly move the partition. Does anyone know of a well thought out side entry disabled accessible bathroom floor plan? Considering I likely will move the store position to the bathroom then the accessible clear floor space eats into half the room straight away! you make bathroom a wet room with disabled handles etc --normal people can still use it--would not consider anything else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iSelfBuild Posted June 15, 2019 Author Share Posted June 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, scottishjohn said: you make bathroom a wet room with disabled handles etc --normal people can still use it--would not consider anything else All that water splashing around on my beautiful logs ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 Just now, iSelfBuild said: All that water splashing around on my beautiful logs ? the bathroom would be tiled or resprotect lined Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iSelfBuild Posted June 15, 2019 Author Share Posted June 15, 2019 5 minutes ago, scottishjohn said: the bathroom would be tiled or resprotect lined Aye, I was just joking - I'm pretty precious about covering up my logs though. I will be using panel boarding in splash zones. A wet room is a good idea though. Definitely going to have the most powerful extractor fans and ventilation in the bathrooms I can buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 it looks like you are trying to compete with the static caravan/holiday park retirement house so what price will the come out at ? Is it not too large for a normal holiday rental? no need for master bed en-suite for that market which would make the whole thing much smaller +less expensive and could open up more market Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iSelfBuild Posted June 15, 2019 Author Share Posted June 15, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, scottishjohn said: it looks like you are trying to compete with the static caravan/holiday park retirement house so what price will the come out at ? Is it not too large for a normal holiday rental? no need for master bed en-suite for that market which would make the whole thing much smaller +less expensive and could open up more market No not necessarily, this model is a very luxurious secluded retreat and I'll be charging a premium for this. Hence why its quite spacious and I have a master bedroom and en-suite and will have all those extra features like sauna, bbq hut and wood fired hot tub. Price wise for this model - the finished shell supplied and built with windows and doors, and roof covering would be £90kish. Easy to get a 2 bed 200mm round log down to £70k mark but since it's my show lodge and because of the market I'm targeting I have designed it like this. A 3 bed could be done for £90k mark and still be comfortable space. If your looking for low build costs and targeting the mass market, It would be best in 75mm glulam logs to EN1647. 1 bed is fine (sofa beds don't count on a lot of online rental sites), 2 bedrooms is plenty - from all my research 3 beds get virtually no more rent and you end up with two families staying and twice the wear and tear. Edited June 15, 2019 by iSelfBuild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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