garrymartin

I have three trains of thought here. Firstly, what's controlling the lighting on Loxone (you mentioned Relay and Dimmer for the mains voltage, what does the 24V?) and what options does that give you to change the characteristics of the lighting in the event of a power cut to reduce the demand? Secondly, as @SteamyTea mentioned above, can you incorporate some emergency lighting components instead? Thirdly, how often do you have a power cut? Would a few portable battery lights not be sufficient if nothing else in the house is powered? The couple of times over the many years that we've lost power for any extended period, we've just used battery work lights and torches as necessary.

It will depend on what the breakdown of the quote is. Can you provide that? Also, what did you ask for?

Easy mistake. It needs power for the internal switch. At least you have a spare now... 😉

How are you providing the USB-C power?

They should reply in time or request an extension. See https://www.gov.uk/guidance/consultation-and-pre-decision-matters#:~:text=Statutory consultees should be aware,the absence of their advice.

@Temp I've seen it in the notes for VAT431NB and VAT431C but I can't seem to find a link to those notes on a gov.uk website at the moment... However, I do have a copy of VAT431NB saved (extract attached below). I have versions of this guidance from 2015 and from 2022 and they are the same. Therefore this guidance hasn't been updated since the case law I mentioned above (2016), so my contention is that prior to that case, the only detached building allowed was a garage. Following that case, a number of buildings can consist a single dwelling and therefore detached versions of items that are eligible when in the "main house" should now also be allowed and the guidance should be updated accordingly. If a swimming pool is allowed in the "main house" then a detached swimming pool, designed solely for the use of the single-family occupants of a dwelling should also be allowed. There is also case law for "relevant residential purposes" that covers this scenario too, where workshops or administration blocks associated with and built at the same time as residential accommodation blocks have been zero rated.

The same applies to your comments about a workshop at the rear of a detached garage or extra living accommodation above a garage and apportionment. Why would the extra living accommodation as a separate detached building (but single dwelling) be eligible according to the Brief, but not if it was above a detached garage? It just makes no sense - both from a common sense perspective and as I interpret the current VAT legislation and the case law that prompted Brief 13 (2016).

Hi @Andrew Jones - great presentation. I noticed the comment about outbuildings not being eligible in your presentation. I've tried engaging with HMRC on this topic given that it is now accepted that a dwelling can consist of more than one physical building for VAT purposes (see Revenue and Customs Brief 13 (2016)) and yet HMRC still insist in their VAT documentation that a garage is the only "outbuilding" eligible for relief? In VAT431C-form-and-notes_22, Note 19 refers to other buildings. Specifically, it mentions detached workshops and detached swimming pools as two examples where you cannot claim the VAT back. But if a swimming pool was contained within the house, then you could claim the VAT back. So the issue seems to be that they are detached. But this guidance is then contrary to the guidance in Brief 13 (2016) which states that HMRC accepts that the law doesn't require a dwelling to be formed from a single building and that a number of buildings may be combined to form a single dwelling as long as they are designed to function together for that purpose. So why would a workshop/craft/art room/swimming pool in the "main house" be eligible, but if they were in a separate building they would not be? HMRC continue to point to their written guidance but the argument is one of law, not whether what they state in their guidance should be taken as correct. Unfortunately, through the online forums and "after consulting with their DIY team" they say they are unable to provide an answer and that I should instead contact VAT Clearances with a copy of the plans for the development and my specific query. As I'm not at that stage yet, and only want clarity on whether I would be able to reclaim VAT or not for a detached workshop from a budgetary and planning perspective, I'm unable to progress this further. Have you encountered anything like this over the past few years?

Don't forget it doesn't have to be the full amount that's paid on the credit card to be eligible for protection... Section 75 applies if: you paid some or all the cost by credit card, with a point-of-sale loan, or with certain catalogue shopping accounts the cash price of the goods or services is more than £100 but not more than £30,000 It’s important to note that: it's the cash price of the goods or services that matters, not what you paid on your credit card or loan – for example, Section 75 applies even if you only made part of the payment using credit

There were changes to who pays for "network reinforcement" in 2023. For example, in my case, before the changes, for our potential plot to get three-phase at the required loads the DNO was asking for almost £50K for network reinforcements - three-phase cabling was in place, but only a single-phase transformer and so the cost was predominantly for replacing the single-phase transformer for a three-phase one (it was originally an eye-watering £146K but their network asset database was out of date and some cabling they wanted me to pay for was already in place). Now, so long as I'm not *requesting* a three-phase connection, but am instead documenting my load and supply requirements (that would naturally lead to three-phase being the solution), then the DNO should foot the bill for the reinforcements and I'll simply pick up the connection charge. Much more detail here https://ukpowersolutions.co.uk/2023/02/14/changes-to-electricity-connection-charges/

Glass shelf support; you're just using them in a different orientation. Available in lots of different colours and sizes. See https://www.hafele.co.uk/en/product/shelf-support-clamp-design-24-mm-screw-fixing-for-glass-shelves/P-00862003/#SearchParameter=&Category=JE0KAOsFOpgAAAF.vM3iJvmA&checkbox_fs_facet_supports_brackets_product_type=Shelf+Supports&@P.FF.followSearch=10000&PageNumber=3&OriginalPageSize=12&PageSize=12&Position=27&OrigPos=535&ProductListSize=90 for an example

The John Cullen lighting webinars are really good - https://www.johncullenlighting.com/events/#webinars

Hadn't seen that news. Looks like you still have a "free go" if your original withdrawal or refusal was before 6th December 2023 though.

Hence the "good-quality" comment 😉 I use 3M insulation tapes and have never had an issue. Is it a junction box? It doesn't look like you are making any connections in the photo; it appears to be a pass-through of the conductors only. If it is a pass-through, then not required to sleeve them but nothing to stop you from doing it if you so wish.

Just bear in mind that the median time for determination of an appeal (written) at the moment is something like 37 weeks (may be different for different appeal types), and that's from the date they determine it is valid. My appeal took 12 weeks to get to that point, so it could be almost a year before I know the outcome. Talk to the planning officer first and ask what would need to be changed for them to approve another application. Depending on the type of application, you can resubmit another for free, and this doesn't stop you from appealing the first decision at the same time. This is what I have done. I resubmitted for free with information that addressed the reason for refusal (despite the planning officer telling me it would still be refused) and started an appeal against the first decision at the same time. Five weeks after resubmitting, it was refused again, but at least I didn't lose that five weeks by waiting for the second refusal before starting the appeal. Should the second application be successful, you can then just cancel the appeal. Still waiting on the outcome of my own appeal for Permission in Principle, but hopefully not too long now 🤞

Heatshrink would be preferred assuming the conductor itself is not damaged. Good-quality PVC tape at a push. https://engx.theiet.org/f/wiring-and-regulations/24396/repairing-insulation You do need to sleeve the conductors with the correct colour sleeving for their function.

Just posting this here for future reference when anyone is looking at back-to-back WC issues and the Geberit frames. There is a Geberit pan connector specifically for this situation. I found it when researching the back-to-back "challenge"...

🤣 Don't think I ever take the easy route to be honest... I mentioned those type of clips in my first post, but they're a) not that cheap when you add all the components together and b) are not the easiest to fix in a residential environment. 50mm waste clips or 67mm round gutter clips might work though.

I've just had a reply from the Wavin (Hep2O) Technical Design Department; "we have no issues with our Hep2o system being clipped over the insulation and this is a principle we see on site often. However, we would not recommend builders band is used, we would recommend that suitable pipe clips are used i.e. rubber lined, Talon clips etc." So it seems that it would be fine. When the time comes, I'll either find clips that will work or maybe take a look at designing something for 3D printing and then print them in red and blue filaments... Thanks for the input @Super_Paulie and @joth - much appreciated.

The Screwfix blurb is wrong. The 15mm versions use JG Speedfit connections and the Reliance website states these versions are "suitable for use with Speedfit PEX and polybutylene barrier pipe [inserts required] and copper pipe" - see https://www.reliancevalves.com/gb/en/products/flow-control/plumbing-strainers-flow-regulators-manifolds/potable-water-manifolds

Standard practice seems to be to clip your plumbing pipes and then insulate the pipe up to the clip and then continue the insulation after it. Are there any regulations that would prevent you from supporting the insulation instead, so that the insulation can be continuous? I see insulated clips online but they seem to be an isolation method and don't often show insulation around them. I'm wondering whether, for example, I could put a 53mm plastic clip (50mm waste clip?) around a 15mm pipe in 19mm insulation. Seems that would provide for better insulation and isolation, but I don't want to break any regulations and I don't want it to be an issue from an installation perspective in relation to manufacturer warranties for the pipe. Any experience out there?

@PeterW Just wanted to add to Peter's excellent advice with the following graphic from the Hep2O Technical Manual as an additional resource for when people come across this thread in the future. It specifically mentions the design differences between locations and that domestic systems operating intermittently at less than 65 degrees are approved.

In the Loxone Youtube video, they just show it installed in front of a round euro box and screwed directly into the plasterboard. See

@MrMagic Just wondering whether you have any photos of it installed? Like you, I want to introduce some ventilation into my garden room that has circa 200mm deep walls, which from the specs, don't seem to be deep enough for the unit you purchased. Did you do an interior or exterior build up to accommodate it? Cheers, Garry