warby

check this out: http://www.ebuild.co.uk/topic/1011-anyone-usedheard-of-quickslide-windows/page__p__54910__hl__quickslide#entry54910

I think this is the correct website: https://www.quickslide.co.uk/

If you can get the supplier to pay for all the additional transport and then the supplier can include that value on their invoice to you.

The bottom half metre in a room is where an unconscious person is likely to be and that small area might just be kept free of smoke for long enough, with luck and if the source of fire isn't directly in the room; smoke should also be moving away from habitable areas towards extracts, so I don't think we can simulate what might occur in reality. As far as fire is concerned I still feel the answer is a damper on the inlet to shutoff new air entering the building, triggered by a smoke detector; this was the conclusion reached on GBF. As Peter and Jack have said, MVHR manufacturers are recommending turning off the MVHR and in so doing they are acknowledging there is a problem. Pipework/ducting should be fire protected by Plasterboard and fire stopping precautions within floor and wall voids for 30 minutes. I have 4 fireman friends, two very senior, who told me of horrific scenes where fire traveled within unprotected voids; perhaps best if I don't go into further detail, Your points are well made, thank you.

Thank you, at last some support regarding imposing controls on MVHR in a fire. Your last paragraph in particular brings about a voice of sanity.

A.Please consider this scenario: There are two people in a building and there is a fire. The first person has limited or no capacity to evacuate the building without assistance due to physical or mental capacity. The second person is unconscious due to say a fall, or or medical problem, e.g. heart attack, stroke, diabetic coma, etc. The smoke detectors can make as much sound as they like these two people are not going to be able to evacuate the building. How will they die, a.due to smoke and b. due to fire. There ONLY chance of survival is to be rescued. Time to rescue them is now critical. MVHR - if smoke is removed from the burning building you buy time for their rescue. If fresh air is being supplied to fire this increases the fire and reduces the opportunity time for rescue. Would some members who said Smoke Detectors and evacuation is the answer like to explain how these two people would survive with your suggestions. B. A different point - when an insurance assessor investigates the fire do you really think they will pay out fully on when knowingly a householder has installed an MVHR system that increases the fire damage?

I hope this is acceptable to quote this reference from http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4575 "Sinnerboys comments throughout this forum are interesting and worthwhile I'd say. He advocates fusible link dampers on any ceiling mounted grilles/vents on lower floors and connecting the motor on the unit to the smoke alarms in that if there is a fire then the fans trip off. Seems like good common sense to me, I'm glad to have read his comments" also: " "They're controls on the ducting so that it gets closed off in the case of a fire to stop the fire spreading from room to room through the ducting. See http://www.scottaire.co.uk/circularvalves2.html for examples (no affiliate etc.)" Perhaps in future my ideas might not be ridiculed by Neanderthals in the future!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just in case I have offended anyone specifically, which of course is not my intention: from Google: neanderthal meaning, definition, what is neanderthal: (of people or beliefs) very old-fashioned and not willing to change

I think @Nickfromwales mentioned this: Firecryl FR is a one-component intumescent plastoelastic joint sealant based on acrylic dispersions. I think he said; fireproofing plasterboard joints, e.g. Carport ceiling: the very minimum I'd be fitting is 2 layers of fire rated plasterboard, sealed accordingly with intumescent Firecryl / similar. Don't forget use of Fire sprinkler systems to cover exit route(s) BS 476 - is the source of British standards on fire rating of materials. Don't forget intumecent hoods or fire covers for downlighters, e.g. use a clay flowerpot! This is about using Fire Resistant, zero halogen, low smoke cables: ; https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Cable_Index/NoBurn_Fire_Cable/index.html You may recall the problems in the Falklands war where fire spread very rapidly through the cables and the smoke problems it caused on the warships. Terry has also mentioned in an earlier thread about the need for fire blankets and extinguishers..

Thank you Terry for raising this very serious topic. These are some of the items from my own research to supplement Terry's references to B.Regs: This is basic but easy reading; https://sipsecopanels.co.uk/data/uploads/pdfs/tech-bulletins/tb2-fire.pdf .The most frightening comment being IMHO: " failure of the floor structure dictated the overall test duration and failure mode". This is a relevant government website referenced from previous link. https://www.gov.uk/firekills This discusses sealing cavities, no pun intended. This company also mentions many other products... http://www.sealmaster.co.uk/structural/structural-pages/cavity-fire-seal.php see also; http://envirograf.com/shop/ This covers closing window and door cavities; http://www.eurocell.co.uk/specifiers/cavity-closers/flameblok This shows details of using different lining board, rather than gypsum plaster board: http://www.fillcrete.co.uk/Products/Fire-Protection This site explains the use of firestops within cavities: http://mayplas.co.uk/products/cavity-barriers-firestopping-cavity-closers/ This site details intumescent strip seals: https://norseal.co.uk/ This is a good BLOG in its own rights and with decent pictures: https://logiecoldstonepassivhaus.wordpress.com/. A quote from the site: :"One slightly different feature was the use of knauff dritherm 32 as a firestop at a few strategic locations. This had the added benefit of not only being a firestop but added another 50mm of insulation over some locations in the timber frame where we have solid timber running all the way through. This should help to reduce any thermal bridging. We put in a DPM above this to act as a cavity tray to protect the insulation from moisture and any snots of mortar which might fall down the cavity from above. We also used it at the top and middle of the gable ends"

@joe90 I really like your ideas. Did/have you considered using an air air heat pump, instead of the woodburner, for heating and in the summer for cooling? It would also avoid the need for a post heater. I have found them very efficient and easy to use in both modes of operation.

Somewhat surprised, I thought the higher the density of the insulation the more effective the soundproofing. Is this wrong?

Enter "Foamglas" into the search facility on the old ebuild forum http://www.ebuild.co.uk/ and you get plenty of information.

You might find these a more detailed: https://www.homebuilding.co.uk/setting-out-and-digging-the-footings/ or http://www.houseselfbuild.com/category/block-house-paul/strip-foundation-setting-out/

This link will show you a very comprehensive discussion about water softeners http://www.ebuild.co.uk/topic/14536-plumbing-spec-boiler-water-softener-pipework/ This link will show you a very comprehensive discussion about Boiling Taps. http://www.ebuild.co.uk/topic/16171-hot-water-tap/page__pid__122839#entry122839 JSH boiling tap was this one: Itho 590-9010 Dolce Boiling Water Hot Tap 3 in 1 Stainless Steel, £639.00

Thank you everybody for your wise words. Please do not forget fire and safety, in particular the automatic control of your MVHR should there be a fire. I will leave it to the moderators to decide whether a new thread should be raised, perhaps a checklist for fire and safety requirements both in design and secondly during a build.

I didn't know this, how do they propose it should be closed down?

We seem to be losing the reason for this thread, I agree with you Nick that " fire suppression and emergency / terminal escape measures " is very important and should be a separate thread. However, the MVHR will continue to feed and accelerate a fire unless a solution is found.

Blimey Jack haven't had to work out things like this since I got a cCemist degree at university in 1974. When gases in a container (house) are heated, their molecules increase in average speed. This means that they exert a greater force when they collide with the house walls, and also collide with the walls more frequently. Oxygen molecules are changed in a fire for larger (more chemically complex) 'smoke' particles. Also, the gas volume in a house is under greater pressure as temperature rises. Consequently, I think MVHR extract volume will automatically increase, presumably up to the maximum capacity of the ducting. Therefore, I think leaving MVHR extract on is sensible but switching off MVHR inlet feed ought to be mandatory to stop feeding the fire with fresh air.

My friend has a decorative board that eliminates completely the requirement to tile, hence a significant saving. They look great and he has no problems with mould, and being without tiles no grout discolouring. I will definitely be using Marmox or similar on the next bathroom I tackle. Jeremy Harris used them/similar but I can't find a link to his write up at present. Could use Jackoboard (http://www.jackon-insulation.com/en/jackoboard/products/jackoboard-aqua-line-pro/), and others like Schluter (http://www.kerdi-board.co.uk/). I just know the names from research but have no idea how good they are.

Thank you jack. However, extra gases will be produced in the house as solids burn and form gases, hence pressure will increase in the house, smoke will accumulate at height and then fall and will escape wherever it can, in particular via the MVHR outlet, hence smoke can be extracted even in a sealed box.

Smoke kills: moving smoke to bathrooms/kitchens and away from escape routes is required. Protecting escape routes is essential; my project plan includes for sprinklers on escape routes. Smoke detectors although an essential alert does nothing to protect you and MVHR inlet air will enhance the fire. I was only 14 when I was in a house fire alone, with my clothes on fire, but was not personally burnt, hence my obsession. I caused the fire in the kitchen by leaving the chip pan on the gas cooker. Melting Polystyrene ceiling tiles were falling on me but I managed to put the fire out. The only reason I was not overcome by smoke was the fact that the kitchen window Xpelair was moving the smoke out of the house and only when I saw smoke passing the lounge window did I realise the kitchen was on fire. These were no smoke detectors in those days.

Bathroom - I agree with Peter, also the bathroom dead area will be ventilated because of the convection currents created by the hot water from the bath/shower. Kitchen - this is an extract from Jeremy - "I added a low volume fresh air feed vent above the door to the kitchen, to help ensure fresh air always flowed into the kitchen and act as a sort of "air curtain) to prevent cooking smells from escaping." - link is http://www.ebuild.co.uk/topic/15371-where-to-locate-vents/page__pid__111277#entry111277 The thread is called "Where to locate vents". I remember someone else said a minimum of one metre. This a quote from TEMP in the other place "CWatters Apr 4th 2016 - We have a separate extractor fan for the kitchen hood. I figure it's not used for a high percentage of the time so who cares if the MVHR is temporarily unbalanced. " I would contact your manufacturer regarding the minimum distance they recommend. I am sorry others, more knowledgeable than me, have neglected your request particularly when you have helped some many in the past, but everyone is a volunteer. Perhaps the new board will look to monitor threads with no or poor responses!!!!

Great minds think alike. This is fine example for lobbying government. I do not agree with the view that: " MVHR system needs to have a means of being switched off in the event of fire " The requirement is definite in a fire: 1. boost MVHR extract to remove smoke, 2. stop MVHR inlet feed with a damper. 3. Control mechanism detecting smoke to trigger 1 and 2. Where are the engineers, when you want them?

This product is suitable to close off the inlet: http://www.advancedair.co.uk/products/fire-fire-smoke-dampers/2530-electrical-release-fire-smoke-damper In the product information it states "When the temperature is reached the actuator power is disengaged and then the actuator closes the blades within 15 seconds". I am confident that this could be modified so that the actuator power is disengaged if the smoke detector is triggered. I am staggered the MVHR manufacturers don't offer something similar. Business opportunity for someone? Thoughts?

In a fire, solids change into gases, many toxic and therefore extra gas is accumulating into the house and needs to be and can be extracted even in an airtight house. Cutting off the air inlet is the required option, I just need to know how this should be best done