ToughButterCup

I got my nose soundly broken by a a Royal Irish Regiment sergeant for calling him a Paddy. Let my own Regiment down using that epithet. He's a very nice man, very very nice man (still) I'm sure ?

... and thus emplying an ad hominem fallacy on an unsighted subject.

You ask: where? A useful starting point is always to examine the underlying assumptions in any statement. In any discussion, a really excellent way of doing that would be (well, is ) to explain the argument put by the other side - while the proponent of that argument listens, respectfully. If done carefully, and in a suitably safe, supported environment , sometimes such discussion starts a thinking process which - over time - can lead to disciplined, respectful dialogue. One where no matter how poorly the point is made (definist fallacy ) or by whom (ad hominem fallacy) , the point made is treated with respect. Naming people - and so implicitly criticising them - rather ignoring the name and referring to the point they made is a common trap. Sometimes called Playing the Man Not the Ball.

@SteamyTea a Troll? Nahhh. He's the grit in yer oyster. Makes us all think just a little bit more. Very useful.

I am a remainer. I have never or will ever regard leavers as uneducated. But I am shocked at the level of vitriol, and saddened at the very poor quality of thinking behind many of the points made. Logical Fallacies (both formal and informal) are common on both sides of the argument. But one simple fact: that leavers won the election remains and must be respected. Its not to my liking, but that's tough. I used to train people to think logically. It's fantastically rewarding watching students (of any age) start to analyse text and speech. And slowly realise that respectful skepticism is a pre-requisite for analysing complex issues. The Brexit issue surely deserves that much respect. More honoured in the breach, it seems.

There's a beautiful little book - been in print since 1954 - that repays re-reading every once in a while. Huff, D. (1954) How to Lie with Satistics , Penguin

Meaningful, accurate data is priceless. As you know. ?

I will. - around lunchtime. I'm using five BlueTooth SensorPush temperature sensors - very easy to use, if a bit expensive. But I now have a data set that I can look at to help us optimise our heating control.

Stand by your beds lads! Wimmin involved. Getting serious now. I want a front row seat.

Maybe, and maybe not. It's the fizz that not understanding something gives me. I hanker after doing a bit of coding, and saving a bit of money as a byproduct. I hope I have this right; even after fitting a diverter, it will still be very interesting to quantify significant sources of demand. Ok, it may not be all that worthwhile financially, but it's the finding out and the journey to getting an answer that's got me hooked.

Ahh, the useful BUT...... Anyway, while I'm waiting for the meter to arrive, and the sparky to turn up, I'm deep into @Bramco's suggestion (Thanks @Bramco). The idea of doing a bit of coding is extremely appealing: should be fun. This diagram stolen fair and square from openenergy.org.uk strikes me as a good first step towards my goal : (identifying what consumes [how electricity] power and when) openenergymonitor even have a discussion board..... addicted to those....

Ordered. Thanks Dave

Thank very much . Get your Vitamin D while you can.

Assuming anything on our build is dangerous.... No, I think is the answer, but I will check with the electrician who fitted the system. I'll get my spark to price the export meter for me : a guess at the price Dave? Thank you @Bramco (Simon). Just what I was looking for - some quiet fireside reading ( Oh hold on, hmmmm, no fire anymore) PS, the sparky has just texted me to say that there isn't one fitted - yet.

Clear evidence for a substantial price reduction.

The inverter is connected to the meter as shown here (apologies for the images - I can't undo the distortion)

The end in mind here is simple. I want to make sure that I consume as much of my 'own' solar PV production as I can. How can I do that when the meters fitted don't tell me? The context 3.86 kW peak fitted to a Solis inverter. No FIT. Solis ( Ginlong) supply an app which purports to describe your production. It does so, but in a way that a first year undergraduate coding student could do better. It is impossible to work out whether I am consuming the PV we produce. These two threads ( Smart Meters ) and ( Self consumption, Making sense of meter readings ) lay the framework for this one. @ProDave has sorted a similar problem out by fitting his own meter ( but he's an electrical genius) and @SteamyTea said that I'll have to get one of those power management sytems. He also hooked my interest by saying that it should be Possible to do the job with a little ingenuity: There is a wider context: the issue has been researched for a little while now, so for those who are interested, I attach a pdf - it's useful because it reviews the current (2015) situation in relation to this issue. Luthander et al (2015) Photovoltaic self-consumption in buildings: A review in Applied Energy 142 So @SteamyTea, hit me with a reading list, or better put, start me off on yet another steep learning curve, please! Thanks. 1-s2.0-S0306261914012859-main.pdf

Ya got me hooked now @SteamyTea Help me help myself ... how do I start please? I'll start by looking at the meter: we are generating now ( reasonably sunny here) and the dishwasher is running. So the LED should be off ..... (Apologies Russ, I'll start another thread)

Apologies @Russell griffiths if this takes your thread off topic a little .... In relation to smart meters, my focus is self-consumption (because we fitted the system after the end of the FIT incentive period). As @SteamyTea and @ProDave point out here I'll need a smart meter or an export power manager. We fitted a Solis inverter. Had I known how dreadful the data-logging sotware was, I would never have entertained fitting Solis. By far the worst choice of our whole build (Schadenfreude permitted @SteamyTea) . Now, I just have to assume that the PV we generate is consumed by us (if demanded) . But, I can't trust Solis until I have evidence to the contrary. @ProDave's answer is to fit a To bring the focus back to your question @Russell griffiths, I think the answer might be; fit a smart meter if there is a compelling reason (saving meaningful amounts of money) or you want to Demand Side Manage your consumption - switch electrical appliances on and be sure that you are consuming your own PV.

You'll be fine on the plumbing then, moving the boiler will be cinch. And you'll need to be more careful about your hands than most. In this sector, you'll have fantastic bargaining power ... "Do me a decent roof and I'll replace that knee for you" . And if you do lobotomies , well, you'll have a free extension I recon. Good luck. Ian

Anything made by Zinsser. For example.....

Never!!!! Well, wait until I put this on FB, Reddit, Chirp and Twitter, and tell the lads in the pub and .....

I've heard that he's helping POTUS cling to power. The argument goes like this; if enough people are convinced that thermal mass (code for Mass Fraud) is true then Jezza feels that its his mission in life to debunk that (wink wink) mass fraud. Now Sydney Powell and he were great mates in the 1970s (code for you know wot) and since her bitter experience with the guy with the runny hair dye , Jezza's inherant good nature lent itself to supporting her and POTUS' claim that he wuz robbed. Jezza never did like injustice. Case proven. QED (I think)

@SteamyTea, it doesn't matter. He's still here for me. I sometimes do buildhub searches refined by screen name, most often his. I have a great deal to thank him for. So, Jezza, publicly, I say thanks for all your help. And entertainment.

With great pleasure Joe ?