ToughButterCup

At last .... Excellent. How is the word business to be understood: process or object? And does the distinction matter in the context of JHJ being quoted - or misquoted ? Arguably, it's the quotation or misquotation of the sound bite / key phrase that is the most important, Rephrasing the quotation to illustrate the sense referred to in your post @Ferdinand; The processes of business (trade) will succeed despite what politicians do. Can that be true? We were prevented from trading with the Eastern Bloc before the Wall came down in 1989. (COCOM) There have been many such interruptions to business processes since. I think that both business processes and business entities (objects) cannot always succeed [despite what politician do] . Because there is ample evidence of both business processes ( 'class' in programming terms) and entites failing regulalry.

Another beautifully simple fallacy promulgated by some who should have known better. Careless, sloppy thinking. Business has to succeed, otherwise it fails. And , failed, is not a business any more. For those of you who are interested in which fallacy it is ( affirmative conclusion from a negative premis) , it's here. With sincere apologies to you @joe90. It's just wrong. Not nasty wrong - just lazy thinking.

Ermmmmmmm, if his house is underground, why does he want walk-on glazing?

Pleased rather than depressed, despite your traumatic experience at the hands of a plumber - you seem to have suffered a similar fate - that you have taken sensible precautions .......... Is this where I depress you in return? My cash was not locked up in a wall anchor until a few minutes ago.

Google, Geberit and Amazon. Our plumber walked off site with the wall anchors for our DuoFix Sigma frame. Easy thing to do at the end of a hard day's asking me how this that and the other should be fitted - when, learning form last time - I'd put together in a single folder all the Geberit product instructions and diagrams - laminated and easy to access. And references to the key YT vidoes that they produce for the Sigma. I'd even loaded the important video onto my tablet and shown it to him, left it in the bathroom. All he had to do was tap the screen once to open the screen and once again to start the video. Ringing to get him back to give me the part (if he could even find it) would have taken longer than this ..... Geberituk website > services > spare parts > product catalogues > installation and flushing > duofix > frames > accessories > wall anchors > part number Copy, paste the part number into google : available in France, Germany, Netherlands and Amazon. Next day delivery (Saturday). As it happens, the plumber says he will be here on Monday of next week (really?) . Won't be an issue then because I will have fitted it. I don't want it lost again. Just for the Hell of it, I'll ask him where the wall anchor is ...........

This is our architect's site: the clarity about pricing was one reason we decided to use them ....

Lets hope your lad is a medical student then - or has worked his way up from frogs to rabbits, to foxes and sheep .... The job is not easy.

Or that his friend has done it before, or that an experienced person is giving advice?

Please tell me he's done it before... please!

thats why on survival exercises, I always tried to pair up with a trained butcher. And as for slaughtermen phhhhhhhhhh. Knife skills ?

Excellent idea to foster those skills at home.... You could start by showing her how to darn your socks like you used to in the war. ?

I am optimistic. Words matter. How they are used, when they are used and in which context matter even more. Look across the pond. As I see it a small shift in your position - an explanation to @jack to show how you think he was playing with words would be helpful. It is never pointless to make an effort: I suspect though that you are right - most won't make an effort unless there's a pay off. And since in this case the payoff takes place in someones head - unseen by anyone except the person who makes the effort. But I don't want a society where all anyone does is to compete for the visibility of their own ideas. Look across the pond again. That horror - visible on a daily basis - is where lack of mental effort gets us. I don't want it on this side of the pond.

Time for a bit of lateral thinking?

This thread is repleat with generalisation and logical fallacy. And hints of irritation, point scoring and sometimes offence given or taken. It might be a good idea to try our hands at summarising the arguments put by those arguing the case opposite to the one you favour. Yes, its hard work. But more useful than skim reading a post and reacting to the small bit of it that gives offence when none was intended.

Try getting .......... Rechtsschutzversicherungsgesellschaften .......... on a sign post (Tr. Legal defence insurance companies). Mind you Mr Trump needs one or two of them at the moment doesn't he? Oh, just thought : Rechtsschutzversicherungsgesellschaftsfuehrer - there ya go, beat that.

And that accords with a widely promulgated German view of English attitudes. As ever, they coined a compound noun to encapsulate the idea: Inselmentalitaet (Tr. Island Mentality).

Anyone's expenditure is another's income. Not quite purpose-free, therefore.

Welcome. Eh, you don't scythe grass in fields with your shirt off , muscles rippling, waiting for some pretty maid to walk past casting shy glances at your sweating pecks are ya? No? Shame.

?You could be the founder Russ- BucketShopsRus

I got my nose soundly broken by a a Royal Irish Regiment sergeant for calling him a Paddy. Let my own Regiment down using that epithet. He's a very nice man, very very nice man (still) I'm sure ?

... and thus emplying an ad hominem fallacy on an unsighted subject.

You ask: where? A useful starting point is always to examine the underlying assumptions in any statement. In any discussion, a really excellent way of doing that would be (well, is ) to explain the argument put by the other side - while the proponent of that argument listens, respectfully. If done carefully, and in a suitably safe, supported environment , sometimes such discussion starts a thinking process which - over time - can lead to disciplined, respectful dialogue. One where no matter how poorly the point is made (definist fallacy ) or by whom (ad hominem fallacy) , the point made is treated with respect. Naming people - and so implicitly criticising them - rather ignoring the name and referring to the point they made is a common trap. Sometimes called Playing the Man Not the Ball.

@SteamyTea a Troll? Nahhh. He's the grit in yer oyster. Makes us all think just a little bit more. Very useful.

I am a remainer. I have never or will ever regard leavers as uneducated. But I am shocked at the level of vitriol, and saddened at the very poor quality of thinking behind many of the points made. Logical Fallacies (both formal and informal) are common on both sides of the argument. But one simple fact: that leavers won the election remains and must be respected. Its not to my liking, but that's tough. I used to train people to think logically. It's fantastically rewarding watching students (of any age) start to analyse text and speech. And slowly realise that respectful skepticism is a pre-requisite for analysing complex issues. The Brexit issue surely deserves that much respect. More honoured in the breach, it seems.