marshian

I do it all the time when decorating no leaks or issues - obviously only works with conventional rads (fed bottom in bottom out) and not towel rails or vertical rads but that's life Only one rad in the house has no pull up clearance so I can't on that one but all the rest have a good 5 - 10 mm of "pullupability"

I reckon with a few rads always in circuit and no TRV's you might get a better drop on the return to the boiler with a tighter ABV If you don't get a better return temp and you know what setting it is now you can always put it back to where it was - you can't really lose??

That would be good..... What setting is the ABV now?

i couldn’t see the heating coil when I cut the top off once I’d cut the coil connections and pulled it out this was was left inside

I'm not a self builder (just a very hands on DIY'r who would like to self build one day - is it OK if still come ) but you make a good point very well

@John Carroll would probably be able to tell you what that circulation pump flows but on Pump Speed 3 it should be more than enough to cope with a big circuit of 19 rads TL:DR - might be worth checking / cleaning pump internals?? Long Version I've just had a thought (based on my experience a couple of years back) My CH circuit always ran on PS 1 (Pump Speed setting one) ie the slowest setting on the pump - gave best DT's at the rads - the house warmed up quickly and all was good in the world (I didn't have WC but ran a fixed Flow temp of 55 Deg C because below that the HW tank wouldn't heat up in the time slot) Only when it was really cold did I bump the pump speed to 2 rather than turn up the flow temp. I didn't like PS 2 because it circuit was noisier and Mrs Marshian is a stupidly light sleeper and circuit noise wakes her up. Then one winter the house wouldn't heat up as well and I had to turn the pump speed up to 2 when it wasn't really that cold outside. I really struggled to understand what was happening but eventually put it down to an aging pump (20 years old) Then when it got really cold I needed PS3 - something was really wrong. So I isolated the pump, removed it and split it This is what the impeller looked like Yeah that's really not going to help move water I have a magnaclean in circuit it never pulls much out of the system - this is typical after 6 months However there was one thing I missed - the magnaclean is after the pump not before it so protecting the boiler but not the pump So I cleaned all the vanes out on the impeller Yes I know it doesn't look like new but the magnatite I scraped out was a good half an egg cup worth. Pump back together and guess what - Pump Speed 1 was absolutely fine again - no system noise, warm house, happy wife = happy life. Next time I did some work to the CH circuit I swapped pump and magnaclean unit so it now protects the pump as well as the boiler.

Isn’t that gonna be a bit “sweaty” I do like the high Viz idea from a guessing who is part of the meet up - but I wouldn’t want to wear one all evening

Well @Dee you need a bit of help and she or he or it it matters not - I'm a he but it doesn't matter either way - you still need help Come to the Crown we can say hi and we continue the conversation in real life

He She It - Apparently gender can be fluid these days so I'm a she, a he, an it but best of all I'm a banana split

Working thro stuff always helps From the temps I'm not sure it's open at all But then again I'm not sure on the measurement process As @Dee has a couple of rads open all the time I agree - shut the ABV and see if it allows the system pressure to rise and the cold rads to warm up Good point - I forget older TRV's don't like being installed in the wrong flow direction - at low openings the flow forces them to close Anyway thanks for the contribution - I think @Dee thinks he's all alone but you are never alone in a forum community it's what keeps them alive

It's not meant as an insult - just a comment - no malice in the statement It takes me ages to get my head round something - electrics especially

That doesn't make sense but lets run with it What's the maximum number on the ABV - ie highest?

Spot on ^ We live in a stupidly hard water area - kettles last at best 2 years and anything that gets in contact with water has water marks all over it When I replaced my 115 litre copper HW tank in 2011 (old one had been in since house was built in 1982) I drained it down and disconnected it - I could hardly lift the damn thing and it took two of us to carry it down the stairs The local scrap dealer would give me a good price for copper but stipulated that it had to be cut open and any scale removed before he'd weigh it and give me cash for it I could not see the heating coil for all the scale inside!!!!! I've got a picture somewhere of the inside of it!! I fitted a water softener after that and now the glass and tiles in the showers stay super clean and the taps don't fur up Kettles still only last 2 years max but we don't use softened water for cooking or drinking

You can be whoever or whatever you like these days - apparently!!! I've just worked out how to get a profile picture up - so now everyday is banana splits day

OK - so almost certainly an ABV Well we need to establish if the return via the ABV is warm first 🙂 Have you done that yet??? If there are numbers on it it will probably either relate to operating pressure in which case the higher the number the better in terms of shutting down flow or just be a number scale in which case I don't know - you'll just have to experiment Here is what I'd do if I don't understand the impact of something like this Firstly boiler needs to be firing - your flow temp is 60 deg - that's enough to burn so be careful with hands on pipe tests First with hands on pipe above and below (or a temp clamp) wind the dial round to the max number Does the pipe below feel warmer or cooler If it feels warmer then the number shown equals more return If it feels cooler then the number shown equals less return Then repeat the other way wind the dial to the min value That should tell you what number to set it too (The number that makes the pipework below it cooler) PS It's lefty loosey 😉 sorry Please don't do that (in bold) - the hot end is the flow the cool end is the return it does not matter which end the TRV is the flow and return and it's path thro the rad doesn't change Nearly all TRV's have a double arrow on them - they work in either flow direction. All lockshields don't care either - they can be on flow end or return - if fact remember before we had TRV's we had a valve with a knob on one end of the rad so we could turn it on and off or slow the flow (the other end would have the same valve but with no knob on it acting as a flow restrictor when balanced) I'm none of those things BTW - I just have an interest in getting my heating to perform at it's best and made quite a few errors on the way. "Experience is what you get when you don't want it" I don't think they've given up on you but it's clear to me you take a little while to grasp / understand stuff so you need a little more explanation than just "do this"

@SteamyTea mate never stop what you do - it's brilliant and 100% appreciated - from a maths perspective it's art

Did anyone invite @Dee?

I've entered it on the house calendar - there was nothing on that day so house rules are whatever is on the calendar first is the priority I'll wear a name badge but it won't be my user name on here - I wasn't allowed my normal handle because (expletive deleted) But to help you all out I'll add a picture to my name badge This is me Honest when I look in a mirror that's what I see

If the ABV is letting flow past........... Remember - I keep saying water is lazy - it takes the shortest path if it can Shortest path is via the ABV straight back to the boiler - this will be robbing flow and reducing pressure that could reach the furthest rads You are on pump speed 3 so max'd out Your flow temp is 60 but your return is 50 much higher than the expected 42 You've got rads that don't heat up despite spending hours trying to balance I reckon you'll find that the temp above the ABV when the boiler is firing will be 60 - the temp below it will be above 50 maybe as high as 55 That's my punt - I might be wrong but lets see

If a supplier (expletive deleted)s up for me I send them a bill - after passing it around depts they normally end up paying it.

@Dee PS next time take all the mops out of the way - it's quite hard to follow pipes in a photo with stuff in front of them Looks like a bit of a heath robinson pipe layout and there is probably some more lagging that could help a little to keep the heat inside the pipes. If it's inside the house not so much of an issue but if it's outside the heated area then I'd be lagging the heck out of it

Blue one is an ABV valve then - I think if you can get a close up picture of it maybe we can get a make off it and do a bit of googling and see if there are destructions out there What you can do in the meantime is put your multimeter and clamp on the pipe below it that returns to the boiler and also above it and see if when the boiler is running on a burn there is a temp difference Alternatively go old school and pull off a bit of lagging above and below it and use your hand to see if there is much of a temp difference. The bigger the temp difference the lower the flow thro it Is that do-able?

Thanks for this - I went down the replacement boiler route despite being pretty confident my house was ASHP ready simply because I didn't want to end up with a miss-matched set up under MCS and resulting higher bills. What I am considering is a small ASHP in combination with my gas boiler (create a "Hybrid" system) to do the shoulder season heating and possibly HW - there will be no MCS grant application required (it's pretty clear to that the BUS grant is inflating costs for full installs) and I can do the majority of the install myself - just needing an electrician for the electrickery bits

Is that picture saying room temp target is 13 deg C?