zoothorn

Sorry forgot. Tank info possibly here..

Well that must then be proof of the unusually wet climate here, if mine goes on all night, on every single day or night the temp siplops below 3*C. Iknow all you guys' systems are quiet, you never hear anything much, you can even have programmable control of what it does at night ( & a warm house too ). But mine, currently, is totally, utterly, completely different ( & a cold house too ) & I have NO contro whatsoever about what it does at night. If this is all I've known of ashp's, getting in a "similsr replacement"..... doesn't fill me with any good expectations at all. Mostly dread tbh.

Peter. It is do this or not sleep. There is no choice. I mean currently this is. Doing so is not -the cause, or even possibly the cause- of this night fiasco. No. This is why I needed all this info on the replacement: because: Im still sure enough that I'll be forced to do this again IF the new ruddy tank thing misbehaves similarly in the cupboard, overnight. Its either turn it off, or leave it on & sleep in the car at the moment. Tbh it's getting old again this weekend, so on friday 11pm I'll have to turn it off. Big red switch. Then on again 8 am Saturday. Each day... until cold snap over. THIS is what Im trying to mitigate against having to do, with the new system, but it's out of my control now I have concluded. A gamble.

Dishwasher?! We haven't got such things out here yet. ( we being me & imaginary friend ). I only had vinegar & sandpaper. It sort of worked! Ok tiles all cut. Now can I just use a cement mortar for the bed/ adhesive layer? Im sure my marine ply is solid enough/ no flex at all. I just bought the wrong " nails " tube stuff it seems/ crap, so I need to crack on. Mortar is all i have: heavy brick tiles mind you, outside pretty frosty.. not such a bad idea? I have grout for afters. Thanks, zoot.

Im here going through your reassuring super helpful reply Nick, & digressing thinking of 80's soft peugeout seats. That is fantastic help thanks- you must be awarded a BH cup of somesort ( longest ever post ? ). Ok that overview makes my mind up to accept this new thing, knowing its similarities to mine, are not quite as many as I feared. The defrost system you've clarified: kudos to you appreciated. I still have concerns, the defrost software is shared between system you see, & I'm not certain there is a compressor in my hydraulic unit box, but rather a noisy circulating pump ( so my main concern, this being a similar pump in the tank, in the same place, with the same defrost cycle... has unfortunately not been aleiviated by your info ). But I know Ive exhausted all your efforts to explain if this isn't so. So tbh choosing to accept this system - with this additional huge tank being the new core sticking point- it's resolutely pretty much the same HUGE gamble for me it ever was ( since this damn tank idea sprung on me 2 weeks ago by Vaillant). Im slightly, everso slightly more confident it won't go off the same midnight to 7 am incessantly, & problem- noisily, or even heard clearly just in the bedroom is ruinous enough IMHO. My confidence after your explanation? gone from 10% to 15%. Tops. So Im still85% sure it will be a nightmare/ same problems/ will be forced to pull the plug on the whole system each night ( in cold snaps ) to sleep because it will start this mode up. But we now will see,.. as I think now I've no choice but accept it. Thanks all. I'll put up the vaillant tank info sent to me, if any use here, next post below. Zoot.

@PeterW Peter, only you can answer this. Ive been trying for 2 years to get the answer to this. Please can you help. What is my system doing currently, pumping water around only the inside of my house, at 2.54am. This is the rhetorical question I need answering ( in order to try understanding what this new system might, possibly, do). So again I will attempt to expand thus; Vaillant tell me ( to my complete consternation & utter bewilderment ) that it is not pumping this infuriating night cycled water to the outside of the house. Furthermore, I can see no pipes for water to take this route ( I see only high pressure gas pipes between the inside & outside ). So I know then, that this night water cycled whatever on earth it is, has no relevance to the defrosting of any outside hardware. Fact. Known. Vaillant tell me so. Pipes show me so. Of course why this sitiation should be so... is incredulous to me if the outside, is the only place susceptible to frost: therefore the question remains: why isn't this water being pumped ONLY around the outside hardware, the only place it is absolutely logically needed, not around ONLY the inside of the house, where it is absolutely illogically not needed? Chaps, I am desperate to get to the bottom of this riddle. It has plagued me for 2 years, & I cannot make an informed decision on any replacement..... until...... I get the answer. Thanks, Zoot.

Have you got a really rattlyold peugeout? Youhave gone up in my estimation if you have.

Im in my car. I drive along & it starts raining. I turn on the wipers. The side windows, have wipers on, but the windscreen doesn't. So I ask the car mfr I need window wipers because its raining. You have them is the answer. Yes but not on the windscreen so I can't see. I dont need them on the sides, because I don't look out the side windows to drive forwards. I add that I am not a chameleon lizard ( with the eyes). You have to have wipers they say. I decide to get a new car, that one's shite. Has it got windscreen wipers? Its got wipers they say.

J. Your info is of course read & some of it is reassuring in you're assesment that my tank pump will be quiet. But I can see as many similaraities with my current system, as you can see otherwise. I am told by vaillant, the reason I have to have this tank. It is because the volume of 'warmish'' water within the rads, may not be sufficient to facilitate this frost mode. So it needs an extra reservoir. This implies the tank is solely to do with this frost mode. But you say otherwise ( im not discounting this). If it has a pump inside, & it is to do with frost mode, & the frost mode software is the same as my current one, then it is fair to assume the following will happen at this tank, within this tank: 1. It will go into frost mode overnight. 2. It will use a pump, within it, to facilitate this frost mode. 3. It will be, in the same location of my current 'overnight frost mode noise problem box'. So I can see nothing but similarities, you see nothing but differences. I am hoping to goodness you are correct. But I cannot see how I can agree this is likely. ---- I am still perplexed by the very design/ nature of this frost mode. At the moment, water is ( seemingly ) being circulated around radiators which are in rooms even when off at 3 am, even during coldest day Ive recorded, above 7*C. The water circulsted, has no phydical way of exiting my house, via any pipe, in order to enter the only hsrdware susceptible to frost, that being anything whatsoever, outside. No water pipes. Only high pressure pipes ( which introduce I think a gas into the house via a compressor ). So I know, with a degree of certainty, that none of this 'warmish' circulated water is in any other pisition.... than within the house. Furthermore, Vaillant agree. They tell me that ' none of this water goes to (for eg) the outside fan unit'. Therefore. Why if this frost mode water, is not in contact with frost- prone hardware, what is its purpose to just circulate around inside the house ????? It is design absurdity. IF the water exited, circulated around the frost prone outside hardware, then entered again....doing a circuit including the outside hardware....... then logic surfaces!! At last!! SOMETHING to do with this wretched frost mode, finally, would make sense. BUT IT DOESN'T EXIT. It stays inside the house. IF the inside got to say 3*C then logic surfaces !! At last!! But, again as Ive explained & found from thermometer evidence, this 3*Cfigure is nowhere near reached inside...... SO NO LOGIC EXISTS.

This is encouraging Peter. But I still need proof, by Vaillant, that the same pump I have now in this box ( is it a hydraulic unit ? I think so ) is NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT in this tank thing. I am so adamant of the need to know this fact, due to the current one being SO DAMN problematically noise- intrusively loud. IT all boils down to this pump. Same or even similar pump ( or rather the same system-principle pump to the other, possibly milo one mfr, a french Co the other but essentially the same part ).... & I cannot possibly accept this tank is placed in this bedroom cupboard. Which means either they fit the system without the tank ( said so but major caveats- I don't think a sendible route )... or not at all. This is the nub. What Ive been asking day after day to Vaillant ( also, still, why on earth water is being moved at all/ anyway within the house if rooms do not drop below 7*C which means the rads are never, ever ever ever susceptible to frost.. in 2 years of asking, I still have no reply or answer to this infuriating riddle ).

ST, this is confusing as " turning the system off overnight" can be twofold ( so I don't know which you refer to): 1. Using the controls, setting the system to become not radiator hot, to subdue it overnight.. but not to cut-it's mains electricity into it. or 2. Going to the big red plastic switch, located awkwardly because you're not supposed to get at it really, & each night (during a cold patch that is, the only time the damn frost mode is likely to kick in ).. at 11pm turn the WHOLE system off: this means at 8 am when I wake, the system is off, until, I go to the huge switch again... & turn it all on (then I have to press 'reset' too). THIS is how i have to use the current system. Cold house until system gets back into the swing, say 5hrs past 8 am. No heat in house until 3 pm. THIS is unacceptable. This has been agreed etc etc. You see I do not know which scenario you mean by ' turn it off at night'. Then I don't understand your point of the post. Surely if I turn itoff at night.. I am MORE likely that it frosts up...gecause it hasn't been on, therefore the wretched anti frost mode hasn't been in effect = frost. I am continually baffled by all this. Zh

But Peter you see this happens with - your- system, mouselike non intrusive noise. But I have outlined, many many times, a clear picture of my ( albeit current ) circulatory frost mode conditions... which are so far removed from your lovely quiet system there, as can possibly be described. The potential problems are twofold; A) the new system shares the same anti- frost software, which implies it will also go on/ off/ on/ off incessantly allthrough the night/ small hours too. And B) the new system which I was told chosen because the new "problem cupboard box" would be relocated well away from bedrooms, & it "wouldn't be as loud" ( yeah right.. ), now Im just told.. includes a tank with a pump which can only physically go back in the very spot where Ive had the problems, negating the whole rationale for choosing this new system it seems to me. AND once I ask what on earth this tank actually is, Im told ( almost ironically, but not a joke afaict ) it's to facilitate the bloody frost mode. The very mode causing me the problems, solely, & only ever coming on in it's loudly audible, & incessantly irritating way it does, overnight.

Hi Peter. So Vaillant telling me that this inside frost mode pump, pumps water around for the reason of aiding the outside hardware, the ( only ) hardware susceptible to frost... this is not true then? IE no water from this pumped circulatory action.... no water..... exits the house at all?

Hi ProDave, missed this reply. Great advice, but as Ive had so much info accounting to drivel from them ( " these new boards to fit today.. i promise will resolve noise" is just 1 eg, of many promises of resolving it.. finally giving up ) I can only make the decision off my own back. I just can't cope with another 2 year fight, if this one ( specifically if this bedroom cupboard tank's pump ) produces the same overnight problems. It will affect my health then, the stress of it. I could only just turn it off once & for all, & boil kettle water etc. So I hsve another exhaustive battle to try understanding it, what it actually is, does, when, compared to the problem hardware in this location now. I have to get answers, can only do so myself, not just asking them: who seem incompetently unsble to provide an snswer. Hence asking for help here, possible clarification, a long shot as no-one has this system, no-one has a clue about how bad the overnight frost mode noise is.

Hi chaps, back onto the tiling to do onto my marine ply. Could someone remind me what I could do, to clean off this ( rock solid stubborn) black staining on my quarry tiles? If it's damn expensive, then just for say 5... it wouldn't be worth it. Is there any possible 'cheap' way to get then presentable? Thanks, zoot.

Chaps, Im tentatively diving back in here to ask some basics. Its been attempted answering by Vaillant tech dept ( 3 chaps no less) but still I cannot understand it. You see the position Im in, is that this new buffer tank thing is suddenly sprung on me. They say " ok ok we can agree to fit the system without it, BUT then we're not responsible for any damage/ warranty invalid etc ". SO. I now have to consider accepting this tank, in the only place it can possibly go due to sheer damn size of it. Where? In the same bloody place Im currently having the problems with the bedroom cupboard box. PLUS all I understand this tank's function is to do, is the very frost protect mode/ cycle thing ( with a damn pump inside too ), which is the CORE problem, with my current system, in this very problem siting: in this bedroom cupboard. So.... in principle, I am going to say NO WAY can I have such a unit, back here. But it seems if Ido not accept it, the system is compromied, & warranty invalid. So I need to try understanding what, if any, differences this tank thing has to my current box ( hydraulic unit ). So far as I can tell, it is essentially - exactly the same- IE having a pump inside to pump water around during the frost protect mode, which happens problemstically loudly ( currently ) & problematically close to bedrooms, in fact within one itself. So, I need to try to understand firstly, going back a big step, what is being pumped.... where. And once known where..... then why. Can anyone help? Thanks, Zoot.

Hi J. Well, no Ive just today been threatened at my home with violence by n'bours.. so things not good. This new fiasco, being cold , sleeplessnes & year plus fight causing stress/ all this.. plus this 5 year now ( been here 5.5 yrs) ongoing n'bour bullying awfulness has taken a huge toll on me tbh. i'll leave the thread now, as i cant really cope with any additional nastiness from replies. Thanks ProDave, Peter & yourself, & other kind voices. Zh

Not quite so Joe. A similar ' hydraulic unit " box" ' is with the replacement monobloc system. Plus has the exact same dreaded frost protect software. NOW Im just told of another unit entirely, of which I dont have presently with my current system, is to be fitted. A huge tank. With an electric pump in ( the pump is the very thing that causes the overnight noise). With duties solely with regard to the dreaded frost protect mode. What these are i dint care to know so far my hatred is of all this ( plus what good/ difference does it make if I know its technical intricacies or none at all... it still will come active at 3.19 am I can do nothing about). As Neil the hippy said " oh no: out of the frying pan... & into another frying pan". But really I cannot muster ANY humour with this. Im sick with it, literally affected my health in many ways this has.

This aspect, I have been tearing my hair out trying to understand the ' logic of' for 2 years. Even the tech dept explaining makes no sense what so fkn ever. Even they agree with me it makes no sense. So ontop of it doing whatever the flaming hell it does at 2.35 am, 2.45 am , 2.55 am until Im shouting at it & screaming in fury... ie unable to know actually what it is doing adding yet more annoyance... the tech people can't produce any logic in explanation as to what its doing either, let alone why it is so damn noisy. No clue. My argument is that why, if interior room temps never fall below 7*C ever ever, on the coldest night, at the coldest point of the night (I know because Im up at 2.55 am screaming at it / being kept awake by it).... why why why any interior hardware should need any frost protection whatsoever. It doesn't. It shouldn't. Its 7*C lowest ever ever, in my coldest room ( & by god this house is cold). ONLY outside hardware is in need of frost protect, because on the same cold night being 7*C inside.... it's -1*C OUTSIDE. YES THIS MAKES SENSE TO HAVE A FROST PROTECT MODE...... OUTSIDE..... DO THE FKN CYCLE THING OUTSIDE..... ONLY OUTSIDE.... WHERE ITS NEEDED.... NOT...................... NOT..................... NOT!! ............... INSIDE......... WHERE THERE IS NO NEED FOR IT!!!! The most infuriating thing Ive ever known. Furthermore, I put the above question/ point firmly to them, & the6 even say during this wretched 2.47 am frost protect mode I hear the bedroom box's motor driving me insane, they say in the outside fan unit box.... nothing is happening!!!!!! ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Anything would be better. A different mfr ASHP. Anything. But no, because this was on a grant. I can barely afford my bills let alone expense on something instead of this pathetic thing. Thing that really grates me, is I removed & sold my electric wall rads ( albeit v. Costly to run )in order to make room or the ashp rads. Now Im forced to turn the system off, I have nothing bar a tiny fan heater to attempt to heat my kitchen & bathroom & bedroom each morning, taking it from room to room. One tiny £5 fan heater more use than a £10k new whole CH system. Makes me bloody angry.

Yes. Thinking & spieling about it causes me stress. I had to go watch some Joe Pera Talks With You as therapy to calm down. This timer idea though, negates the frost protect mode. Good on the one hand yes,( & what Im doing in effect), but what I need is a replacement system that is QUIET AT NIGHT, it can do wtf at night it wants then, as long as I dont hear it. I had this tantalisingly all sorted, ready to fit, the new 'box' to go near my back door, promises it'll be different, quieter. But now an additional 'tank' ( i really dont care what it is, dont heed to know, as I cant affect whatever the heck it wants to do, it'll do it, whenever the fk it wants too as well IE most likely 2.35 am... Im resigned to this happening), a tank with a dreaded " pump " in & just being told this tank+ pump thing is purely, solely to do with the dreaded ' frost protect mode'.. which just means nightly noise hell... & can only go in one possible place, that is back in the bedroom. So I cant have this. So I cant accept the new replacement system. So i continue to have this horroshow thing to live with. Back at square 1. My 2 year fight I thought won, now utterly lost. Im back to choose between a bit of warmth am ( not much 15* absolute max the warmest room can ever get at 9 am, the other rooms around 13*) & being woken all night without sleep....... or........ freezing cold am, having physically turned it all off 11 pm the night before, but at least being able to sleep. So I have to choose the latter. You see each time I re-switch it on at 7.30 am, I then have to then press 'reset' on the wretched box to get it to fire up again from being fully stone-cold off. So your idea won't work, there is no benefit to what I do now at 7.30 am, as both ways I have to go press reset.

.. so when this company omits to inform me, of a huge extra cylinder (which has a " cycle pump" in & its function bring some connection to this rotten frost protect mode that's ruined my life, just go add insult to injury)... & the only place the f*******g thing can physicslly go........ is back in the spare room cupboard!! My blood has boiled with fury. NO NO NO I willnothsve thiswretched thing bsck in this problem position. Especially if it has ANY bearing on coming active overmight, in this appalling frost protect mode. NO. It may well be, that others' similar tanks ( whatever on earth this damn thing is/ i dont care tbh to know tbh, its just a potential noise monstrosity to me I cannot control ) are quiet as a mouse. But so is their indoor box which doesn't wake them up like mine does. So I can take no comfort, from anyone having a similar tank thing, because of the track record on this frost protect function, which this damn tank apparently has something to do with, being the exact same frost protect mode on the new system!! The only thing I can affect is one thing. Where the damn hardware is relative to bedrooms. To sleeping. Therefore it has to go furthest point away. No other no other no other position. Which I had ready for the new indoor box. Which they agreed to. But told me NOTHING of any additional huge 'tank' hardware, whatsoever, on mibths wirth of calls I made to pore over every detailof this replacement box. Forgrt the outdoor unit, matters not. It is 100% all about - where- this -one- indoor box ( potential noise emitter like the current one is ) is located. Nothing else I can affect. Massive time on this, years no less. I am sick with rage. It has affected my mental health having to deal with them/ this protracted fight month after month, whilst being cold too, whilst being prevented from sleeping, whist racking up £hundreds on calls over 2 years. Just to getthe fkn thing to shut the a(expletive deleted)up! sorry judt need to vent this out. Zh

Hi Joe, if only I could have done this.. I'd have jumped at the idea. When you say ' not on during sleep hours ' I don't know whether you mean use its controls to get it to stop working, or, using the huge mains switch ( which you're never meant to touch ) turn it off here. For the last 2 winters, & the main reason for replacing it ( although infuriatingly, the same frost protect mode is apparently on the replacement system... the difference being only thus; the unit the problem noise eminates from is currently in a cupboard in a bedroom; the replacement system I have made abundantly clear I do not want its indoor box - or anything else whatsoever- sited in the same place.. but only st the furthest point from bedrooms instead) has been my being forced into turning it off -at the big red physical mains switch- each cold day, at 10 pm. This results in the system being shut off entirely/ no electricity into it, until I wake up, freezing cold, then go to red big switch, & turn the whole sodding thing on again. Taking 6 hours to get any heat going. Hopeless. Infuriating. Maddening. Cold. 2 winters like this, my electric rads removed for this design disaster... so I am freezing cold for most of each day, those days being the coldest, because that's when the abysmsl noisy frost protect night infuraition is likely to occur. At 11pm..... on....off...... on... off.... on....off... ad nauseum keeping me awake, until 6.30 am when the heating time is to start. Which at least means this pathetic noise infuriation stops. You cannot live like this. It prevents sleep for the whole time 11 pm to 6.30 am. In a room 3 beds away. So yiu can imagine, woukd have ruined my sin in the next room ( closer to the damn box ), let alone my daughter sleeping in the spare bedroom the box of which is in it's cupboard ( closest to the box ). It is only fate, that thankfully I don't have a son or daughter. But helps my point to explain the awful nature of this intrusion. So when yiu say 'turn it off overnight' I don't know what you mean. Like the way Im forced to do? I doubt you would be doing snything similar, but using the controls to ' turn it off ' instead Id assume you mean Dave does. Which obviously I tried 2 years ago. And the f******g thing just overrides this, comes alive at midnight until 6.30am, ruining my life. The only way I can get it to be quiet, on a cold night, is to turn the whole thing off at the big red power switch, stretching right behind the damn box to find it contorting myself. So angry!!!! But I hsve no choice if I want to sleep. But caveat being... no warmthin house until 6 hours after I turn it on say 7.30 am when I wake, to a freezing cold house.

But the point I was really making was, why if my system presently doesn't have an extra huge 1m x 0.5m tank, should a replacement system have one? Also my other point was, if they'd given me the details of the proposed hardware which didn't include this damn huge extra thing needing to go inside... why is it suddenly appearing as deeming needing to be fitted ? I told them due to the noise of their hardware in the bedroom, under no circumstances will I be having the new box/ anything at all in this bedroom or any bedroom. For obvious reasons. If it has a circulating pump in, & this wretched thing is solely to do with the very overnight frost mode situation that caused me so much grief... then the last place I want it, is anywhere near bedrooms. As then Im in the very same boat again! So proposing I just get them to place it in the very spot, the problem spot, where the old problem unit was... is completely counterintuitive/ redundant as any idea ever was. And being so huge, there is nowhere else in the small cottage it can go, apart from the loft.. which they say is not possible due to maintenance access to it. This damn frost cycle!! The bain of my bloody life.

Hi chaps. After a 1.5 year fight with Vaillant about a dreadful, intrusive noise from a frost protection mode ( emanating from a hydraulic unit box absurdly placed in a bedroom ) during the small hours, a situation Ive outlined on here before, Vaillant accepted the hardware 'flaw ' & finally agreeing to replace the whole system. A huge victory for me, & vindication of my long fighting them ( not any installer ) about a hardware flaw of theirs. Agreed in november. A new installer then to innitiate a visit to oversee the replacement ( another 3 month wait). The replacement: a ' monoblock ' ashp, mine with the problem bedroom ' box' is currently a ' split ' ashp. I have no idea of the difference, but, the choice was carefully chosen by them. So far so good. Huge apologies/ promises my findings passed to German designers no less, to re-design ascociated software. Before they agreed the redo, I had the opportunity to pore over all emailed aspects of the new system info... specifically what the new ' box' is/ how it might differ or similarities/ its size, & where WELL AWAY FROM BEDROOMS it could go. Perfect spot chosen, even a card box made to simulate its size. Once I was promised it wouldn't be as noisy as the one before, & agreed it can be located away from bedrooms, & lastly where I specified I wanted it... THEN I could agree/ give the go ahead/ with thanks etc. All boxes ticked, t's crossed, i's dotted. Diligently, over a year of effort. The installer comes. Need to put a buffer in. A what I say? A buffer. A huge 1000 x 500 extra tank. I had no idea of. I have no clue of. Why if there isn't one now, should there be need for one in a replacement system. Why wasn't I told of this. Q after Q. All my plans scuppered, as I donot have room fir such an extra tank, let alone furious any extra huge hardware vessel should even be needed: the more there are, the more the likelihood of noise, let alone taking up small space I have in a 2 bed up/ 1 down cottage. Ifit could go outside.. unhappy but ok. But it can't. I mean FFS. Can anyone advise? I am furious about this as now ai cant accept/ have the replacement. Vaillant emailing saying I'm lucky they would be paying for the wretched thing. Lastly, to add insult, the bloody thing is to aid the ' frost protect mode' the very damn mode that's caused me all the grief & the year+ fight. Thanks for reading, zoot.