zoothorn

The only thing that seems to adequately describe what is possibly happening ( again this may, or may not be the cause or a contributing factor to the bizarrely early damaged state of my doors areas) is thus. Although the humidity percentage taken here may read similarly to an average area, or even very slightly above average ( as it does), something else is playing a factor that this figure is not showing. If mrs. miggins in her new bungalow gets the exact same drainboard green mould spring to life in ridiculous fashion, repeatedly, without any let up all year... as I do here. And if both our kitchens are dry. And if the tap water isn't any "different" to normal water ( the only other possible contributing factor producing this green extravaganza). Then the only thing linking me & mrs.miggins... is the air. Now, if this air has a similar moisture content to normal let's say, or nothing pinging out as higher than average, then something this percentage figure ----doesn't show---- MUST be at play. My only possible theory, is that for some reason, the air here is a particularly good CONDUIT for carrying, (or, particularly good at aiding the development of) MOULD SPORES. It must be something within the air that a " normal" figure for eg of " 72% " just doesn't explain. This is the only possible explanation for all the catalogue of mould happenings in our part of the world here, 6m east of the irish sea, in very hilly west wales, in a bowl of steep-sided fir forests, where plants grows unusually almost weirdly-well. And my hunch has been from day 1, & has never changed, that it's a "perfect storm" of factors including topography, sea air. It is known, for eg, that we have here in this locality, a UNIQUE flora mould type. I've bumped into the nerdiest nerds on planet earth here whilst hiking, excited by a patch of green on a farm gate. Come all this way, to witness this unique incredibleness. Gives my theory wings doesn't it.

Hi markc, again, there's a mix up in communication/ my fault obviously. I'm distinguishing absolutely/ totally/ unequivocally, between damp within a house. And damp within an area. And when I say area; not the area within the house; nor the area the house resides on ( the property area). I mean the locality. The combined area of say 200 houses, 400 perhaps. If we all share & moan about the same problems & similar strange things, & if we as a collection of different house types (some old miners cottages with modrrn additions, some 1930's, some 1960's bungalows, some new built extentions) share commonalities... then focussing on the house damp in this house, is nonsensical; it misses the point entirely; it's of no use whatsoever. I do have some 'normal' damp within the old part of the house. It manifests itself in a dry grey-black area easily wiped off, in lower areas & corners of the old room (I only have 1 old room). This is completely completely completely different to the moisture-mould in the brand new extention french doors. It is completely different to green mould in the kitchen. Completely different to external green mould appearing on a 5m square patch, mid-way-up, on my new extention, within only 18 months since new & just painted. And completely different too, to the breath-related patches of dark mould formed very quickly in areas (of the modern bone dry sections, not in the old part of the house) adjacent to where my breath is exhaled. Next to my head on the wall (dry/ no damp/ modern addition) where I lie in the bath (like the drainbosrd green mould appearing in weeks, a dense black mould patch forms on the wall in weeks again after removing). Exactly where my breath exhales. This bathroom is modern dry, no damp. So this mould right here next to my head................... has nothing to do with house-damp-air then. It must have a cause though. If there is no damp in the room, the ONLY factor left, is the locality-air breathed. SO. There is something happening with the air, in the locality. It is proven time after time. But what is impossible to establish. Distingushing between the different (4 as I count) mould types is 1st step to understanding which ( if it is related to one at all), these new doors' mould is related to. If it's cold bridging... then my count goes up 1 to 5 types here. .

Hi Ferdinand, ventilation is more than good as said. Which is why surely cold bridging is top of the possibles, that is to me it just seems logical, esp if I have perhaps gone too thin with PIR below cill & behind reveals (but constrained with the ammount I could fit by the prior frame size/ &/or the timber area left for me: especially so the window L&R: I could only fit 10mm of insulation here or I'd be encroaching into the frame too much). I have to live with it. Dehumidifiers have been tried here by house after house, so much so everyone has them but no-one uses them: they extract alot, but it's like a drop in the ocean.. it makes no difference at all; everyone here house after house moans about the damp air, the green & black mould. Best eg: my kitchen sink drain board is chokka with green mould, masses of it. Scrub it clean, in weeks it returns. A modern 80's extention, no damp in kitchen. Everyone has it. Old house, new build bungalow. All our drain boards are similar. Outside, you whitewash a well ventilated wall, in months its covered in green mould in huge patches. You can't do anything about these two eg's. You just learn to live with it. It IS the environment. Regardless of a % figure on any device saying "no, the air is fairly normal". It just isn't, in this neighbourhood/ locality. This is a fact, & I can verify it with countless eg's here which tally with neighbours absolutely identically. How this absolute-factual aspect is affecting my problem with these doors though, is as impossible to figure out as it is impossible to do anything about this air 'thing'. Imagine James Herbert's The Fog. It's like that, but invisible & never, ever ceases. Sounds implausible, but it is absolutely real.

Hi Peter, I'll try digging out some pics good idea. No trickle vents, but as said the room is aired throughout the day leaving the window open. Now the doors are acually being used for the first time, balcony finally on, increaces ventilation too.. albeit not open in winter. I just know the local area moisture is a factor, perhaps the core reason even.. but it's impossible to explain it/ the moisture % reading doesn't neccessarily concur ( bizarre to me this), & impossible for me to consider actually how. You know these 45x9mm white placcy strip trim long things? Are they purely cosmetic/ to cover wonky plaster ( just as I used it for on my new window install/ pic above), or do they have any form of minimal insulative function-?

Hi Radian, that clarifies things/ great info. Tbh if I can keep on top of it, continual wiping & redoing the silicone ( even Forever White, going on tmrw/ redoing it, I just know will innevitably become blackened with mould) say every 2 years.. I'll just have to lump it. I guess even if i found a cold 'source', with a gadget, the lintel area perhaps.. I can't do anything about it, I can't rebuild it, I have to live with it. It's just having put so much work in, it's pretty dissapointing. And not understanding how this is so much worse (I mean honestly by a factor of 20x) than my poorly insulated majority of the house, having used all up to date materials. The rest of the house's extentions are poorly built, freezing cold (unlike this modern addition) falling -far- short of B.Regs, but minimal frame mould. Maybe this is something just 'expected' with 'problematic french doors'; I just don't know what to expect you see/ I have no prior experience or reference points ( apart from Onoff's SWMBO who wipes moisture regularly from their french doors, much older tho, but an interesting bit of info). Thanks, zoot

Useful eg thanks Radian. Looks pretty similar; in fact I'm surprised you didn't say "it may well be cold bridging in those areas".. I"m not quite understanding why you'd say it might -not- be with such a similar-fit eg. But I'm v.much a newbie at all this build xyz you see- so many times I cannot fathom things, in fact I bet if I had a penny for every time I said "I cannot understand" summink... I'd have £5.63. zoot

Regarding redoing these lower cill areas: I just thought would the vertical corners be well served by adding strips of white plastic trim stuff? Like my DG window job here; i saw it's made of a kind of firm foam inside: is this maybe designed with a little insulation in mind maybe? Perhaps this extra 1cmx 4.5cm, glued on like this on my french door edges.. might minimise this awful black goings on. Just thinking on my feet tbh. Surely worth a go as it's a cheap addition Iknow how to do.

Hi John, Im fairly sure ventilation ruled out, my wet room even without an extractor fan has small mould in comparison (i i think a bathroom extractor fairly useless if you have a window you can just open after a shower or bath) & in all of 6 yrs living here too, & being a very small bathroom & extremely cold too.. leads me to think Im vindicated not having a fan in here. If for eg this is "cold bridging".. would you know why does it only or rather the vast majority of it, appear at the lowest possible areas on the frame/ reveal general area? IE & not uniformly over all the frame edges. I think I need a cold bridging expert perhaps to answer this one.

Hi markc, no the builder part well documented as being fine/ no pitfalls. The BCO knows him ( prob best known in area) so I can rule out ventilation, & beforehand rule out any sub-par builder aspect straight up. Also I detailed the chaps on here his build progress in photos, so anything below par.. they'd have been onto it. Thinking further as I scrape out my rotten silicone, "cold bridging" come to mind, I think my builder mentioning it re. some other area here yrs ago. If this is what it is (& not pane moisture collecting/ what I was thinking it was up till now tbh).. if these lower areas ARE purely & solely 'cold bridging', then logic boils the cause down to -my- own hand, building the cill & reveals. That's not to suggest the kind help here wasn't good... not at all/ it was fab... it must just have be -me- cutting the odd corner in order to get the job done asap. Although I did show what I was doing, photos etc, & no-one piped up with any concern.

Hi chaps on this section, I'm having trouble understanding my situation & wonder if you can help. My new extention new french doors built by a builder, reveals work done by me ( guided by folks on here). I must assume, that both builders' & my work done correctly. The difference in insulation compared to the rest of the house is vast: I have one stone cottage 1830 large room.. onto which 4 extentions built. 2 from 1980's (kitchen & bathroom extention... & an upstairs two bedrooms extention), a front porch (80's too maybe), & lastly my new extention built 2020. These 3x 80's extentions have 25mm insulation. My new extention has 120mm. The stone large shell onto which all 4 are built.. of course has none at all. I have upvc windows throughout & in 6 years I've had a small ammount of black mould on all the 80's frames, even in bathroom (even having no extractor fan & a shower in). So, in my new extention I was expecting to have perhaps the same if not -less- or no black mould even due to the up-to-date materials & insulation guages. But I'm getting -far more- black mould in this newbuild & especially badly at the new doors (cill areas): so bad here the plasterboard, in only 18 months, is damaged. I cannot fathom this if I adherred to correct building procedures. The house is ventilated very well: this "problem" upstairs new extention bedroom with it's french doors has it's window open fully allday, everyday (even in winter) 9am to 7pm, I even sleep in this large'ish room with the window open partially (even in winter); so it has decent if not vg ventilation. That box is firmly ticked. Do I get a specialist in? Is this a door mfr malfunction? My build technique wrong? Or, is this entirely expected-? it's frying my head trying to comprehend this dissapointing situation which there seems no (feasible) solution to. Rebuilding the whole doors/ reveals/ cill... is not feasible/ out of the question due to finances. Thanks, Zoothorn.

Arghh.......! I give up. It's impossible to explain, impossible anyone can understand unless they come to this village (& next vllg over hill: friends moan about it too, as we all do, all modern house theirs). Im actually getting incredibly frustrated, my points on this LOCALLY-specific (not house-specific!!) hugely pervasive moisture aspect are totally lost. Best I leave it- not doing myself any good or any favours. Thanks for replies on the BCO visit, I'll briefly dip back in for an update after he's here. Zoot

Hi Peter. Yes will do, the zinsser stuff seems very effective. I did get the electrician sign off, or give me something was it? Damn gotta find whatever it was then. I have fingers x'd he won't be finicky & measure the loft fluff.. I still have another 3rd layer to go in new bedroom loft: just too much to bear doing this extra layer, an almost impossible prospect with the constraints in room up there. So I've plumped it up a bit. Or hope he doesn't see my few non-galv nails, & all my screws that aren't weatherproof (thought they were at the time).

Tony, this is a total red herring. I have cheap units, someone kindly sent me them. They shoe a " normal" humidity figure. So something else is at play here for the descriptions I've outlined, the physical evidence I've described in photos & describing the strangely ott damp conditions of the local area, the physical pain my lungs were in for months. So, readings of a % the figure are totally inadequate, useless. Why? Because it results in a collection of people desperate to disagree with me. With what I report. With what I say it's like living here. "Old stone cottages.. blah blah". It has bugger all to do with 'old stone cottages'!! It's a LOCAL facet. It is equally abundant here, as it is in the modern bungalow opposite (I had friends living there, I frequented it/ the same symptoms- of course the same symptoms if it's a LOCAL facet). And, similar too in my even more modern brand new extention. Actually this most modern build of all three eg's......... is by far...... the worst!! Please. Forget this red herring of old stone cottages, or humidity readings. Its a LOCAL facet. I've shown examples of the unusually bad mould on newly built areas, in extentions, not corners of my old part of the house which is totally, completely separate in terms of the odd 'usual' bit of "old cottage damp" I'm not not not ----whatsoever---- talking about. Local environment. You cannot do anything about it!! Nothing. Apart from de-seed the clouds that is, &/ or flatten both steep hillsides here & remove the fir forests ( & reverse the westerly sea breeze bringing in moisture from sea 6m away); these these these are, can only be, the likely reason for this weird local facet 'thing'. It's just a combination of factors colliding, in an area, like a perfect moisture storm. I simply wouldn't have been in pain, in my lungs, for months, if it wasn't for such a 'thing' being real. Absolutely zilch all to do with 'old stone cottages'!

Yes, but as you say your doors as you guess.. wouldn't have been foamed well, or at all. The difference is twofold here. 1) I & my builder --did-- build this correctly, with your own (& others) keen eyes & great help. 2) you don't live in a similar environment, at all.

Well surely it must be, if he finds rotting & moisture affected reveals though? The difference with this BCO visit, is the timelag of 18 months since the build which I'd hazzard a guess at being far longer than normal to get a "sign off". Entirely my fault, I should've pulled my finger out & built balcony in early spring, if not last year. If I can cover these areas, then that's fine. And if the BCO won't care me using agricultural spindles, non-galv screws & some nails too.. then that's fine too.

And here is another, small very localised yet different patch of some entirely different form of mould: this is formed where my hats touch up against the side wall hanging from a peg on the kitchen door, when it's opened (alot of the time). Very unusual goings on. Its extremely difficult to remove too. It is an addition to the newish painted room, it's not a rubbing away of the paint. It is some form of whitish mould, definitely ( as Ive removed it twice in 3 years by scrubbing damn hard.. but it just reappears within months). Never known anything like it. It's just cursed with this moisture issue here.

Off topic but just to show an eg of just one typical aspect of this 'thing' here I talk about. This room renovated 3 years ago, insulation board put under this very wall example here, suggested by folks on here. This wall has 50mm of insulation total within it's depth. Not huge no, but something. This pic is my nearest kitchen wall to where I sit alot here on the iPad next to a lovely view out me window. The area of this wall (RHS of window).. the middle 'head level' third of it then.. is covered with this uniform mould. The wall third above is clear. The third below is clear. The wall left of the window & all other wall areas of kitchen: clear. Breath combined with the 'thing' --is-- the cause. You dont have one inch of wall like this. Nowhere you've known or visited, has a wall like this. I've never known -anything- like it, I've never seen anything like it anywhere I've ever been in/ lived in/ visited, here, abroad, in my entire life. Something*... something... is reacting with my breath ( & the heavy innitial breathing pain in my chest undoubtedly links to it too)... which hits a wall, & causes this mould. This is the '*thing' I talk about affecting your breath. The doors' panes saturation cannot be caused by my breath, as it's so much, & occurs when Im away. But a combination of factors causes this massive, unusually-so, moisture-affected different wall areas have -only- one common denominator: the air: the atmosphere: the microclimate here.

Aha sounds ideal, though I bet it can't cope with mine. Will check it out thanks. Last Q really, maybe PeterW might know.. is my using rough sawn tannalised stakes (actually have some farmland real purpose I think) for my balcony spindles a problem? Zoot

Hi J, good points there thanks. YEs I could even ask him about these typical local problems, although I'm certain it's turbo'd by our steep sided (& very close by either side up here) valley hills, so esp bad in this upper spot.. which he'll likely not know so intimately. I certainly will ask after/ if he signs it off. I just hope he won't say for eg "plasterboard moisture-affected, door reveals need redoing please".. so I still think it makes sense to Zinsser it/ redecorate just in case. Could you remind me: what stuff is usually put in corners where plasterboard meets upvc frame, & skirting & door frame meets cill? Is it silicone, or caulk stuff? May well be something else I put on. I defo need to redo this blackened beading. Thanks, zh

Well, it could perhaps because the build work was finished 18months ago.. & during this albeit shortish time the "damage" ( if it is, I cannot tell if the door reveals pB all needs replacing) has occurred. I'm not quite clear about your Q's pov though.

SS, you cannot resolve it here. As I've described the damp is a local phenomenon, a micro-climate anomally. Dampness as I've described is only a problem in damp (local) areas. Not house-specific damp coming up for eg. I mean the village, the local area. This has nothing to do with damp coming through the new build materials, or it having been built inadequately or materials chosen inadequately. It was seen & documented how it was built, in detail: all normal/ up to standard quality/ dpm's in standard places/ materials of standard type/ nothing was under-par at any stage ( the BCO himself came & checked at stages anyway, this alone is proof). Ok I could resolve it if: I introduce 3x 2hp dehumidifiers & run them 24/7 every day in this bedroom from sept to april, sleep with the windows & french doors wide open all winter, & wear a large mask to trap any moisture. But it's not conjusive to live like this. This is an unfeasable proposition. I could also solve it if: I arranged 4x huge cranes & moved it to england. If I did this, the panes wouldn't be saturated each day, the cill corners not black with mould, nor the plasterboard moisture-damaged in only 18 months. It would look like your rooms. It would still look as it did when built, if for eg, it was simply built elsewhere, in england for eg. zh

I did but it reads a similar ballpark figure to normal. It's far from normal, or, something else isn't registered with such a humidity test, or, the device isn't up to snuff (it's just a $1 amazon temp guage after all). Regardless of what a figure says, you can just see evidence of a hugely unusually bad moisture problem in such a short period of time in a new build room, & with my description of what it's like to live here, & esp the biggest evidence of all something's very strangely amiss here- my physical pain for months 6 years ago immediate upon moving in, until my lungs got used to the climate in this local area. If my figure reads 67% as yours might too.. the reading is, for all intents & purposes, utterly meaningless. Anyway the thread isn't to focus on how I can fix this, as I cannot do so ( unless I ask god to change the climate here). Btw I ventilate this room all day, window open, & I sleep with a window partially open too. So it's nothing whatsoever to do with inadequate ventilation. If I was sleeping with a bison though.. then this would be the likely cause. I do not. Not in september (they get randy). Thread's only to do with if I need to, & if so how I can cover these defects for the BCO to sign off the build. Could someone remind me what I use as a 'bead' from a tube ( iirc this is what I did) on the corners between reveals & cills, reveal & skirting etc. I can't recall what I used.. but it's gone totally black in places. Maybe a better choice here, or did I use totally wrong material maybe to have gone like this. Thanks, zoot

But there will still be water on the surface, the Zinsser only solves the stains. If I emulsion over the same again.. I'll be in the same boat. Anyway the idea with bathroom paint is it's sort of then a washable surface, so Im not rubbing in the mould into the paint.. but wiping it off.

Hi ETC, the damp/ mould problem simply cannot be addressed. Not here. It's something inherrant to us all here, we all moan about it. It causes a film of mould over -the whole- wall near where I sit in the kitchen ( forward wall, not behind my back, so clearly caused by my breath). I decorated it only 2 years ago. I have two small patches exactly at head high when lying in bed, each side of my bed on the wall. Weird but true. Again can only be my breath. And even around my bin in kitchen.. I lean continually to put rubbish in, as one does, & wall here is going black. Paper is weirdly damp feeling, not just in the house, but we all say it here/ a local repeated thing. Clothes always feel damp (even when on!). Drying clothes takes forever outside. The air in each room ( old ones, & the new one just built: both identical) when heated (eg stove) is a cloying heavy 'wet' feeling. Even in bed, leccy blanket on & you move your newly warm feet & the air feels undeniably cloying damp. It's utterly bizarre. But it is an absolute, unequivocal, undeniable fact. The first thing I look forward to when away for a few days, is it will feel dry. Normal. As you know it. As every other place I've lived, stayed, visited, everywhere just is. Nowhere, even NZ I've lived is like it. You get used to it. You have to. But it was a real shock when I moved here; not only because I knew I had no choice but put up with it, but also, I actually physically suffered for months from it: my lungs ached terribly, I was seriously concerned I actually couldn't live here solely due to this atmosphere/ 'climate' weird local thing. My body learned to deal with it & I was ok. But this took 3+ months. Again it's not local-usual-damp from this cottage. It is equally consistent in the new extention, as in the old part of the house. No different. It is equally consistent with all the houses here, few old ones, mostly new'ish bungalows : Ive been in them, the air feels the same, & we all moan " even dehumidifiers cannot touch it/ useless". So the terrible condensation & mould as a result isn't something unfortunatly, unlike a usual situation, that can be addressed. It's always present here in this small welsh valley. You cannot irradicate it, nor even make any effect on it either.. I have no choice but live with it. Thanks, zh