zoothorn

Hi SAS, thanks great help. A huge ammount for me understand in this post though, much I don't tbh. Will try going through it over the weekend. Appreciated. The idea early on in this post though, of buildings falling down.. has me kinda stopping with the idea right here. Get a pro in. Because as I'm dealing with such a basically-built stone rectangle shell, with damp within the walls (capillary action seemingly drawing it up) & know mud used as mortar, (mud evidence seen in my porch renovation).. plus with my still limited building experience, then I think it's wise that I don't even think about the excavation work myself. This is what I was aiming for, to be able to make an evaluation on whether the excavation work is A) sensible, + B) a tenable idea with my skills = C) whether it (IE the excavation 'lions share' main part of the job).... is a feasable idea, for ME. I think the right conclusion is no. If it was a more modern building, I think the answer might be yes. That's great. I'll pause & consider getting a quote for my local builder I know (who knows these old stone cottages well) to do the excavation: leaving a prepped surface for me to add dpm/ PIR/ new floor. Gratefully, Zoot

Hi chaps, on this corner of BH. My full bath wouldn't drain, I now suspect related to the freezing temps (IE outside section blocked solid seems likeliest). Stupidly beforehand, I plunged the plughole assuming it was just debris-blocked. Water just exited via the overflow vent, back into bath, & water then started draining slowly.. but.. flooding my lino floor instead. Urgh. So the pressure I daftly rammed own, has surely failed a drain plumbing part below plughole area. So. Bucketed out water, removed side panel. I notice the leak is @ the black plastic collar immediatly below. To confirm this: I undid U-bend section below. This is full of water ( expected? I think so).. but drips from underside have stopped. The black collar seems made in 2 parts, as I can rotate the main body (with the overflow grey pipe on) around, leaving the top part fixed to the tub. It seems THIS junction is the leak @ rotation junction. And there's old orange seal stuff here too. I've looked at tubs, to try establish if they come with this 2-part black collar section, but can't find the answer. Could you advise on what to do? Thanks for reading, Zoothorn

Hi TT, when you say "in a room used properly" I'm not really understanding the suggestion. Are you suggesting here a different solution, not to excavate, but just to get a bigger stove-? I was really needing opinions on the feasibility of the actual work involved in the floor redo idea. I have no idea you see, what an excavation process might be in this case. Whether it's feasable one person could do it. If I could do it. I do know that once this lion's-share portion of the job done.. adding the PIR & even the floor ontop, is acheivable, as I've done it before. I need help on the details, of an excavation of the floor. Has anyone done any kind of floor excavation? Thanks, zoot

Damn nice ikea chair in, with hottie.. & you completely forget your Offgrid too, the led lights are perfect.

Yup got a CO alarm, & digi display type 0.00 giving extra confidence the CO stays at 0, & a blip light telling me ON & working. Appreciate the consideration. I'll even get a fireguard, for 1st 45mins when front vents open getting it going = super safe. Saying that- I did have a small explosion! Strange, 1st night: Once up to speed, I think I shut down vent too far (testing it's "efficiency" or summat).. & Bang! a small combustion. Scary. But none since, by keeping vent always @ 1cm min open. 24*C is luxury, & ideal. 25* tonight & then a shock opening cabin door into -1*C & crunching down garden, stream babbling away, big moon lighting my way. It's ace. Zoot

@Onoff took a few more snaps now I've man-caved it up inside a bit more. 26*C seems consistantly achievable, albeit only at 2nd half of evening, & that's currently @ -1*C outside. Can't quite believe what a fab project this has turned out to be. I think you need an Onoff man-cave too.

Anyway I need to get back on track. I can't know how much effect this proposed floor idea will achieve, so alas I have to simply make a big gamble, if I proceed. Ideally I'd have PeterW or Joe90 for eg, come see my house & all it's cold flaws (clever pun) & tell me in their experienced estimation.. would they go ahead with the gamble floor idea? Not some builder who'd just say "oh yes FAR warmer afterwards" because he has only have himself in mind, ie a straightforward job prospect. So I understand this is a huge gamble, but it's SO uncomfortable & as Im now past 50, the prospect of the cold status quo situation is becoming untennable to live like this. -- So I need to consider how feasable the excavation "lions share" part of the job might be, for me alone. Or is it maybe more sensible to get a builder to do the excavation I wonder. -- Thanks for reading, zoot

But surely you can, after describing no mainroom insulation, it's 2ft 'cold radiator' slate walls, cold pouring in up from floor (Im hoping a large portion of it is, or my job prospect here won't reap great results), the trapped loft air cocooning upstairs big pB cavities & sitting on the perimeter of the mainroom ceiling, & cold leeching in through timber door from uninsulated (bar 1" of wall PIR) kitchen. So much cold must pour down stairwell from upstairs too, also impossible to combat. That I find it a wonder I -can- get an hour of 'reasonable warmth' 10-11pm in the mainroom at all. You can only not understand how my 8.5kW stove isn't heating it ( so much that inside sections have warped with heat- I've no choice but run it flat out).. because you can't have experienced such an uninsulated stone house. The cold was the very reason my predecessor sold it, & why I therefore could afford it ( she snapped my hand off at my first offer you see, a very low figure). I just need to do some careful evaluation, as to how much benefit I might get, from doing the floor.. being the only feasable avenue available to me.

Hi Radian, do you mean pouring in some form of vermiculite chips, from a bag, presumably down the chimney..? Im a bit lost sorry. I was at the stage of simply needing to form a better board/ panel. To cover the vertical 400x400 hole. Ok, if I propose an idea, maybe someone could tell me if A) this is any good, or B) if not, then perhaps advise on an alternative. Ok an idea might be: two large 500x200 tiles, 1/2" thick some form of marble or ceramic. Form my hole shape with 50mm PIR. Glue the tiles to this. Insert into hole, glue the excess 100mm of tile at top to the fireplace marble. And ideally also a lip around edge to glue onto the fireplace on 3 sides. Thanks, Zoot

You must have some insulative aspect then overnight, to have retained some of the evenings heat. 6.5*C in my mainroon, @ tum height, this morning. I must say it's reassuring to know you can understand my situation Onoff. My old folks, just can't understand. Well just put the heating on then they say, then i try explaining that unless this is a jet-powered-level of -constant- heat the idea here, won't work. Let alone a meagre-heat-output ASHP (that I knew couldn't possibly work here, but had installed knowing this full well so can't complain about it's heating ineffectiveness; I will shriek in complaint about infuriating overnight mechanical noise ruining my sleep tho). Zoot

As Onoff says TT, I just don't know. My builder picked at a bit of blue placcy once @ at one floor edge, said something about a dpm. So is the test hole something I can do myself? What size are we talking if so.

Aha. Good thinking. I ruled out feasably attacking my kitchen (WC is just too tiny to consider this).. but this is the only way then. Interesting. I could only consider PIR tho, as UFH is too costly now to run/ me one person. ---- Temp readings yesterday: during day ( no heat at all) temp on central low table = 6.2*C. Stove on for 2.5 hours almost flat out from 7pm, room at 10.30pm, on floor middle of room = 13.2*C (only 2m from stove). Top of ceiling middle of room = 20*C (very low ceiling though). Actually this was a much better evening, I had a whole film 10 to 11.30 lying on sofa & reasonably warm, albeit a hottie on my back & hat on. So if I take a mean of the two = 16*C or so, on my sofa (only 1.5m away from stove). But you have to "run the gauntlet" (& a big stove effort) between 7pm - 10.30pm until room bearable. So in comparison, if I can get the cabin to 20*C in 45 mins, using 1/4 fuel... it almost seems daft using the house in the evening now at all.

@Radian thanks for this. But I'm visiting my elderly folks for 4 days. In order to do this extra-barrier idea (either the balloon or the sheep), I'd first need to measure chimney, buy product, fit.. then crack on with my hole patch job. They live in a village, nothing like either of these will be available in a shop even in a town nearby. If there is a universal-balloon-sized product, then I can buy before & have upon arrival/ do this extra-surity idea first (ideally so, if that is, it's not already blocked with something- this I don't know) then my main barrier . ---- So in meantime I just need help on the main barrier "patch job" to replace my temporary foil-covered ply. It must be 1) insulated, 2) made with the adjacent leccy fire in mind ( safety aspect ). Thanks, Zoot

Ok fab thanks, this narrows my search down/ saves time. I think I'm all set, a good few in toolstation one should do it. Much obliged chaps, Zoot

Hi TT, well now I never knew of such a thing. Ok I don't actually know if the chimney has been blocked / closed up though. All I know is there's a 400x400 hole behind the freestanding cheapo leccy fire, & I see the insides of the wall cavities. If I patched up this hole, & what I was thinking was how to do with an insulated panel or something, wouldn't this have the exact same effect as ballooning the chimney, then patching this hole? I mean your suggestion if I just do this, leaves the hole behind the fire still there, & mice get in/ any cavity air gets in too. ThankZ

Chimney sheep? Is this an xmas wind up? Heard of chimney sweeps.. but..

Simillar to this (fixed) gas fire eg & fireplace, but thankfully I can access behind by pulling aside their leccy fire. If you imagine behind the gas fire here, is a gaping 400x400 hole the the gas fire is hiding. The cream coloured 'front' of fireplace here, marble perhaps too, is what my ply board is attatched to.

Hi y'all, my very old folks' sittingroom fireplace, has a 500x500 hole in, with an 80's electric bar/ convector freestanding heater plonked in front to hide it. Old fire area situated back, behind the fireplace, & chinmey going up long since used. If I pull aside the cheapo heater, exposing the big gap, I feel cold air coming down from chimney, plus see exposed wall cavities each side. A recipe for mice, & cold air into their sittingroom. I've temporarily blocked the hole last xmas: 12mm ply covered in foil, well glued to the (marble I think) fireplace surround.. telling them please leave a gap from cheapo leccy fire to it. And to please get builder in to do. Which they haven't done. So I need to do this fill-job properly this xmas for them, with an insulated back, bearing in mind the bar fire just in front: which they rarely use (cost) but just in case they rarely do turn a bar on. Could you advise? Pretty simple I'm sure, but need to be super-sure because of safety/ proximity to this cheapo bar fire. ThankZ

ProDave, is this distance from face to hole you refer to here, called the "Backset Size" ? ThankZ

Hi SAS, no the opposite: I was considering digging down an extra bit to -add- some room height. The ceiling's very low only 1.85m high, it reminds me of HMS Victory with the ceiling beams & wonky walls! Although my kitchen/ WC it leads into would be a step up then, plus front door which leads directly into this main room, would then be a step down from. No, I think keep at same level. The staircase is at one corner of the room though. It's got a bit of charm, but essentially only 'decent-amateur' standard & "agricultural" with 4mm cheap unsightly ply covering the back. It could be an opportunity to renovate it.. but adds a big extra workload, for me. But underneath the 600x600 base step 'square' footprint on the room corner, is inaccessible to excavate without removing staircase. Yup I thought the 1st step might be drilling a hole/ see what's going on. If the basic idea of laying PIR & a caberfloor top is do-able for me (did just this in my new extention last year) the unknown part is the excavation work & especially the depth relative to the shallow foundations. Shallow is known, as they were exposed at the extention build: & one foundation corner 'coin' stone permanently & alarmingly visible outside, due to the extention 1 foot-too-low fiasco (the results of which continue to plague me, in countless ways).

@Onoff I'll take a temp reading at different points in my mainroom tonight, like yours. The floor lowest 2ft defo feels like a pool of cold. 12.5*C for you though? Jeepers I thought only my bad luck encountered such temps. At the moment.. 6.8*C in my mainroom typing this, hottie on my back. Freezing nose & hands. No heating on. Im just about happy enough, spinning a few records even so: I'm so used to the cold it's just 'normal' after 6 yrs. [My cabin in comparison last ev.. 28*C ! Super toasty, t shirt & shorts, real luxury: & 0*C outside, at the most].

Hi Jenki, thanks for your very good suggestion, & I did this in my extension so know the process/ caber floor. The only fly in the soup: I'm a boring audiophile & need the mass of concrete below my 2 speakers. But, I wonder if I could incorporate two 400x400 gaps ( my spkr positions ) afterwards.. & fill up with concrete? Hmm interesting. Cheaper surely.. no need to spend on a Pro Co to pipe in concrete, as I'd imagine the top layer part of the job would need.

Hi Peter, I have a "normal dose" of so-so 80's orange fluff, plus, 2 years ago a grant for another layer: a good 250mm extra added ontop, & perp to the joists: by a welsh "loft-monkey" in 1 hr whilst his monkey-mate smoked a fag outside. So I think 'adequate' to answer your question, to rule out I think this being one of the main factors. Its's more the loft air getting down & filling behind all 4 plasterboard sides below the loft. IE imagine one big bedroom, just with a thin divider between making it two.

Hi Roger- just noticed your mid wales too.. & another stone cottage-? Well well, this is very useful to know. I wonder where you are. Anyway, what I thought as my builder years ago -did- seem to find evidence of a blue bit of placcy @ edge of floor.. was & this was his opinion, that there -was- evidence of a dpm. This surely implies that the floor therefore-isn't- the original. And if so, then the implication further, is that there -might- be some PIR underfoot. I'd suggest it depends if it was a pro or amateur job (if pro PIR is surely more likely, even if a " 1" token gesture" like I know my ground floor walls are graced with before the 2" cavity). Damp. Even with this slim evidence of a dpm, yes I do get a bit of damp evident at edges: a dry black powdery residue I have to wipe away ( lowest 1ft on one wall) not bad at all really this/ not 'damp odour bad' here. But, I do get more in this room, upon a cupboard wall: open this tiny cupboard & there -is- wall moisture, plus a mild damp odour too. And another lesser floor edge area. So some thankfully " liveable-with " evidence of damp within the WALLS, moreso than the floor. Perhaps also suggesting a dpm -is- in place even if a bit shoddy. SO. One benefit I would hope to gain from my floor redo-masterplan.. is to clear up some, if not the majority if in the walls, of this damp. A bonus. But not the priority reason for the idea. Cold cold cold, is. Thanks, Zooter

@Big Jimbo & @saveasteading morning chaps, thanks for these suggestions: yes, I have done everything I can on this front, before coming to this last resort 'floor big job' idea. Really thoughrally sealed everything I can. It's leeching in though so hugely, from well I hope mostly the floor should I proceed with the grand plan, that addressing these minor ingresses you hint at.. is akin to a drop in the ocean. Its made no discernable difference. Even sealing the tangible cold air ingress gaps (you could even hear it whistling!) at the edges of the main room ceiling gaps-right-up-to-loft... made no discernable difference. So there's such such a HUGE ammount of cold entering the room, that the stove hasn't a chance of winning the battle ( or rather it could IF its run at super-hot 400*C for 3 hours using two huge baskets of logs, & warping parts of the stove in the process) running it 'normally', nor has stuffing edge gaps, doors, etc etc. Thing is first up, in an ideal world, is determining -where- the cold is entering via. But unlike a boat where you can bubble-test & find the ingress holes... with air you can't, as far as I know, do such a test to determine where the cold air is mainly leeching in from.