zoothorn

Useful eg thanks Radian. Looks pretty similar; in fact I'm surprised you didn't say "it may well be cold bridging in those areas".. I"m not quite understanding why you'd say it might -not- be with such a similar-fit eg. But I'm v.much a newbie at all this build xyz you see- so many times I cannot fathom things, in fact I bet if I had a penny for every time I said "I cannot understand" summink... I'd have £5.63. zoot

Regarding redoing these lower cill areas: I just thought would the vertical corners be well served by adding strips of white plastic trim stuff? Like my DG window job here; i saw it's made of a kind of firm foam inside: is this maybe designed with a little insulation in mind maybe? Perhaps this extra 1cmx 4.5cm, glued on like this on my french door edges.. might minimise this awful black goings on. Just thinking on my feet tbh. Surely worth a go as it's a cheap addition Iknow how to do.

Hi John, Im fairly sure ventilation ruled out, my wet room even without an extractor fan has small mould in comparison (i i think a bathroom extractor fairly useless if you have a window you can just open after a shower or bath) & in all of 6 yrs living here too, & being a very small bathroom & extremely cold too.. leads me to think Im vindicated not having a fan in here. If for eg this is "cold bridging".. would you know why does it only or rather the vast majority of it, appear at the lowest possible areas on the frame/ reveal general area? IE & not uniformly over all the frame edges. I think I need a cold bridging expert perhaps to answer this one.

Hi markc, no the builder part well documented as being fine/ no pitfalls. The BCO knows him ( prob best known in area) so I can rule out ventilation, & beforehand rule out any sub-par builder aspect straight up. Also I detailed the chaps on here his build progress in photos, so anything below par.. they'd have been onto it. Thinking further as I scrape out my rotten silicone, "cold bridging" come to mind, I think my builder mentioning it re. some other area here yrs ago. If this is what it is (& not pane moisture collecting/ what I was thinking it was up till now tbh).. if these lower areas ARE purely & solely 'cold bridging', then logic boils the cause down to -my- own hand, building the cill & reveals. That's not to suggest the kind help here wasn't good... not at all/ it was fab... it must just have be -me- cutting the odd corner in order to get the job done asap. Although I did show what I was doing, photos etc, & no-one piped up with any concern.

Hi chaps on this section, I'm having trouble understanding my situation & wonder if you can help. My new extention new french doors built by a builder, reveals work done by me ( guided by folks on here). I must assume, that both builders' & my work done correctly. The difference in insulation compared to the rest of the house is vast: I have one stone cottage 1830 large room.. onto which 4 extentions built. 2 from 1980's (kitchen & bathroom extention... & an upstairs two bedrooms extention), a front porch (80's too maybe), & lastly my new extention built 2020. These 3x 80's extentions have 25mm insulation. My new extention has 120mm. The stone large shell onto which all 4 are built.. of course has none at all. I have upvc windows throughout & in 6 years I've had a small ammount of black mould on all the 80's frames, even in bathroom (even having no extractor fan & a shower in). So, in my new extention I was expecting to have perhaps the same if not -less- or no black mould even due to the up-to-date materials & insulation guages. But I'm getting -far more- black mould in this newbuild & especially badly at the new doors (cill areas): so bad here the plasterboard, in only 18 months, is damaged. I cannot fathom this if I adherred to correct building procedures. The house is ventilated very well: this "problem" upstairs new extention bedroom with it's french doors has it's window open fully allday, everyday (even in winter) 9am to 7pm, I even sleep in this large'ish room with the window open partially (even in winter); so it has decent if not vg ventilation. That box is firmly ticked. Do I get a specialist in? Is this a door mfr malfunction? My build technique wrong? Or, is this entirely expected-? it's frying my head trying to comprehend this dissapointing situation which there seems no (feasible) solution to. Rebuilding the whole doors/ reveals/ cill... is not feasible/ out of the question due to finances. Thanks, Zoothorn.

Arghh.......! I give up. It's impossible to explain, impossible anyone can understand unless they come to this village (& next vllg over hill: friends moan about it too, as we all do, all modern house theirs). Im actually getting incredibly frustrated, my points on this LOCALLY-specific (not house-specific!!) hugely pervasive moisture aspect are totally lost. Best I leave it- not doing myself any good or any favours. Thanks for replies on the BCO visit, I'll briefly dip back in for an update after he's here. Zoot

Hi Peter. Yes will do, the zinsser stuff seems very effective. I did get the electrician sign off, or give me something was it? Damn gotta find whatever it was then. I have fingers x'd he won't be finicky & measure the loft fluff.. I still have another 3rd layer to go in new bedroom loft: just too much to bear doing this extra layer, an almost impossible prospect with the constraints in room up there. So I've plumped it up a bit. Or hope he doesn't see my few non-galv nails, & all my screws that aren't weatherproof (thought they were at the time).

Tony, this is a total red herring. I have cheap units, someone kindly sent me them. They shoe a " normal" humidity figure. So something else is at play here for the descriptions I've outlined, the physical evidence I've described in photos & describing the strangely ott damp conditions of the local area, the physical pain my lungs were in for months. So, readings of a % the figure are totally inadequate, useless. Why? Because it results in a collection of people desperate to disagree with me. With what I report. With what I say it's like living here. "Old stone cottages.. blah blah". It has bugger all to do with 'old stone cottages'!! It's a LOCAL facet. It is equally abundant here, as it is in the modern bungalow opposite (I had friends living there, I frequented it/ the same symptoms- of course the same symptoms if it's a LOCAL facet). And, similar too in my even more modern brand new extention. Actually this most modern build of all three eg's......... is by far...... the worst!! Please. Forget this red herring of old stone cottages, or humidity readings. Its a LOCAL facet. I've shown examples of the unusually bad mould on newly built areas, in extentions, not corners of my old part of the house which is totally, completely separate in terms of the odd 'usual' bit of "old cottage damp" I'm not not not ----whatsoever---- talking about. Local environment. You cannot do anything about it!! Nothing. Apart from de-seed the clouds that is, &/ or flatten both steep hillsides here & remove the fir forests ( & reverse the westerly sea breeze bringing in moisture from sea 6m away); these these these are, can only be, the likely reason for this weird local facet 'thing'. It's just a combination of factors colliding, in an area, like a perfect moisture storm. I simply wouldn't have been in pain, in my lungs, for months, if it wasn't for such a 'thing' being real. Absolutely zilch all to do with 'old stone cottages'!

Yes, but as you say your doors as you guess.. wouldn't have been foamed well, or at all. The difference is twofold here. 1) I & my builder --did-- build this correctly, with your own (& others) keen eyes & great help. 2) you don't live in a similar environment, at all.

Well surely it must be, if he finds rotting & moisture affected reveals though? The difference with this BCO visit, is the timelag of 18 months since the build which I'd hazzard a guess at being far longer than normal to get a "sign off". Entirely my fault, I should've pulled my finger out & built balcony in early spring, if not last year. If I can cover these areas, then that's fine. And if the BCO won't care me using agricultural spindles, non-galv screws & some nails too.. then that's fine too.

And here is another, small very localised yet different patch of some entirely different form of mould: this is formed where my hats touch up against the side wall hanging from a peg on the kitchen door, when it's opened (alot of the time). Very unusual goings on. Its extremely difficult to remove too. It is an addition to the newish painted room, it's not a rubbing away of the paint. It is some form of whitish mould, definitely ( as Ive removed it twice in 3 years by scrubbing damn hard.. but it just reappears within months). Never known anything like it. It's just cursed with this moisture issue here.

Off topic but just to show an eg of just one typical aspect of this 'thing' here I talk about. This room renovated 3 years ago, insulation board put under this very wall example here, suggested by folks on here. This wall has 50mm of insulation total within it's depth. Not huge no, but something. This pic is my nearest kitchen wall to where I sit alot here on the iPad next to a lovely view out me window. The area of this wall (RHS of window).. the middle 'head level' third of it then.. is covered with this uniform mould. The wall third above is clear. The third below is clear. The wall left of the window & all other wall areas of kitchen: clear. Breath combined with the 'thing' --is-- the cause. You dont have one inch of wall like this. Nowhere you've known or visited, has a wall like this. I've never known -anything- like it, I've never seen anything like it anywhere I've ever been in/ lived in/ visited, here, abroad, in my entire life. Something*... something... is reacting with my breath ( & the heavy innitial breathing pain in my chest undoubtedly links to it too)... which hits a wall, & causes this mould. This is the '*thing' I talk about affecting your breath. The doors' panes saturation cannot be caused by my breath, as it's so much, & occurs when Im away. But a combination of factors causes this massive, unusually-so, moisture-affected different wall areas have -only- one common denominator: the air: the atmosphere: the microclimate here.

Aha sounds ideal, though I bet it can't cope with mine. Will check it out thanks. Last Q really, maybe PeterW might know.. is my using rough sawn tannalised stakes (actually have some farmland real purpose I think) for my balcony spindles a problem? Zoot

Hi J, good points there thanks. YEs I could even ask him about these typical local problems, although I'm certain it's turbo'd by our steep sided (& very close by either side up here) valley hills, so esp bad in this upper spot.. which he'll likely not know so intimately. I certainly will ask after/ if he signs it off. I just hope he won't say for eg "plasterboard moisture-affected, door reveals need redoing please".. so I still think it makes sense to Zinsser it/ redecorate just in case. Could you remind me: what stuff is usually put in corners where plasterboard meets upvc frame, & skirting & door frame meets cill? Is it silicone, or caulk stuff? May well be something else I put on. I defo need to redo this blackened beading. Thanks, zh

Well, it could perhaps because the build work was finished 18months ago.. & during this albeit shortish time the "damage" ( if it is, I cannot tell if the door reveals pB all needs replacing) has occurred. I'm not quite clear about your Q's pov though.

SS, you cannot resolve it here. As I've described the damp is a local phenomenon, a micro-climate anomally. Dampness as I've described is only a problem in damp (local) areas. Not house-specific damp coming up for eg. I mean the village, the local area. This has nothing to do with damp coming through the new build materials, or it having been built inadequately or materials chosen inadequately. It was seen & documented how it was built, in detail: all normal/ up to standard quality/ dpm's in standard places/ materials of standard type/ nothing was under-par at any stage ( the BCO himself came & checked at stages anyway, this alone is proof). Ok I could resolve it if: I introduce 3x 2hp dehumidifiers & run them 24/7 every day in this bedroom from sept to april, sleep with the windows & french doors wide open all winter, & wear a large mask to trap any moisture. But it's not conjusive to live like this. This is an unfeasable proposition. I could also solve it if: I arranged 4x huge cranes & moved it to england. If I did this, the panes wouldn't be saturated each day, the cill corners not black with mould, nor the plasterboard moisture-damaged in only 18 months. It would look like your rooms. It would still look as it did when built, if for eg, it was simply built elsewhere, in england for eg. zh

I did but it reads a similar ballpark figure to normal. It's far from normal, or, something else isn't registered with such a humidity test, or, the device isn't up to snuff (it's just a $1 amazon temp guage after all). Regardless of what a figure says, you can just see evidence of a hugely unusually bad moisture problem in such a short period of time in a new build room, & with my description of what it's like to live here, & esp the biggest evidence of all something's very strangely amiss here- my physical pain for months 6 years ago immediate upon moving in, until my lungs got used to the climate in this local area. If my figure reads 67% as yours might too.. the reading is, for all intents & purposes, utterly meaningless. Anyway the thread isn't to focus on how I can fix this, as I cannot do so ( unless I ask god to change the climate here). Btw I ventilate this room all day, window open, & I sleep with a window partially open too. So it's nothing whatsoever to do with inadequate ventilation. If I was sleeping with a bison though.. then this would be the likely cause. I do not. Not in september (they get randy). Thread's only to do with if I need to, & if so how I can cover these defects for the BCO to sign off the build. Could someone remind me what I use as a 'bead' from a tube ( iirc this is what I did) on the corners between reveals & cills, reveal & skirting etc. I can't recall what I used.. but it's gone totally black in places. Maybe a better choice here, or did I use totally wrong material maybe to have gone like this. Thanks, zoot

But there will still be water on the surface, the Zinsser only solves the stains. If I emulsion over the same again.. I'll be in the same boat. Anyway the idea with bathroom paint is it's sort of then a washable surface, so Im not rubbing in the mould into the paint.. but wiping it off.

Hi ETC, the damp/ mould problem simply cannot be addressed. Not here. It's something inherrant to us all here, we all moan about it. It causes a film of mould over -the whole- wall near where I sit in the kitchen ( forward wall, not behind my back, so clearly caused by my breath). I decorated it only 2 years ago. I have two small patches exactly at head high when lying in bed, each side of my bed on the wall. Weird but true. Again can only be my breath. And even around my bin in kitchen.. I lean continually to put rubbish in, as one does, & wall here is going black. Paper is weirdly damp feeling, not just in the house, but we all say it here/ a local repeated thing. Clothes always feel damp (even when on!). Drying clothes takes forever outside. The air in each room ( old ones, & the new one just built: both identical) when heated (eg stove) is a cloying heavy 'wet' feeling. Even in bed, leccy blanket on & you move your newly warm feet & the air feels undeniably cloying damp. It's utterly bizarre. But it is an absolute, unequivocal, undeniable fact. The first thing I look forward to when away for a few days, is it will feel dry. Normal. As you know it. As every other place I've lived, stayed, visited, everywhere just is. Nowhere, even NZ I've lived is like it. You get used to it. You have to. But it was a real shock when I moved here; not only because I knew I had no choice but put up with it, but also, I actually physically suffered for months from it: my lungs ached terribly, I was seriously concerned I actually couldn't live here solely due to this atmosphere/ 'climate' weird local thing. My body learned to deal with it & I was ok. But this took 3+ months. Again it's not local-usual-damp from this cottage. It is equally consistent in the new extention, as in the old part of the house. No different. It is equally consistent with all the houses here, few old ones, mostly new'ish bungalows : Ive been in them, the air feels the same, & we all moan " even dehumidifiers cannot touch it/ useless". So the terrible condensation & mould as a result isn't something unfortunatly, unlike a usual situation, that can be addressed. It's always present here in this small welsh valley. You cannot irradicate it, nor even make any effect on it either.. I have no choice but live with it. Thanks, zh

Hmm. Thing is it's just above head high.. very low ceiling. Will try redoing the spring tmrw. Ok that one's sorted pretty much. What I need to know, is this; back to the cill reveal blackened areas: you can see the moisture at the reveals has been bad enough to show my screw positions/ must have affected the plaster I put on to hide them.. If I Zinsser BIN paint the reveals, & white over in emulsion, I know I'll be able to cover the darkened patches ok. But the moisture will still be ongoing. Q: if say I bathroom-emulsion paint over the Zinsser stuff.. ie to form a washable surface I can wipe the mould off when it forms again.. will this be an effective barrier to this impossible moisture problem at the reveals? Or, will the moisture be getting to the reverse side of the plasterboard, as much as the visible surface-? I might be just letting the plasterboard rot behind without seeing it do so.

I wonder if @PeterW could have a look at my pics & cast an opinion. Grateful if so, zoot.

Hi SS. I'm quite sure the chaps on here who kindly & patiently helped me through installing the ceiling, insulation, & led spots, would've told me if I had needed hoods (PeterW for eg with his BCO credentials on board). So it's really just the slight slump causing -the gap- I'm concerned with tbh. Thanks, zh

Well this concludes it for me then.. I gotta redo before booking him in if there's the slightest chance he'll "fail me" on these (mould) areas. And I'm not redoing the reveals plasterboard work after ( & each) 18 months. So it's a cover job- my only choice. The build ETC, done all tickety-boo photos proove the dpc/ block/ timberframe/ & then via (ace) help from folks on here ( who collectively wouldn't have me miss a trick in order to conform to B.Regs).. I built all the inside work, bar electrics. The BCO will likely know the area is -incredibly & unusually- damp & wouldn't be surprised I think to find this on a modern building here (although I definitely am at only 18months new). But a new build? Maybe he will be surprised. But it aint something my builder or I am responsible for. It's not due to any sub-standard aspect of the build work this mould is my point; it's simply the environment (eg the french doors: saturated in condensation AM daily September to spring: so much it takes till lunchtime to clear). Even when Im away, the door panes (& less so the frames) are saturated. So I'm not surprised at the cill area mould if it can only drip downwards. It's just I cannot understand, using modern materials, all built correctly, the doors new upvc's conforming to regs, every box along the way ticked etc etc etc... I get this infuriating saturated glass I can do nothing about. The window adjacent too, but less so; the difference between window cill & doors cill water is clearly/ obviously consistant with the glass area. Put this build in warwickshire, my last place, & the doors & window would be clear as you'd expect. If you had this properly built just as I have, wherever (else) in the UK you are, & built the inside correctly just as I have... you just wouldn't have this issue/ you wouldn't expect to have this issue. Thanks, Zoothorn.

Hi TT, good that's positive.. yes good idea I could try re-tentioning the springs. Or maybe just pin in up with a dab of fireproof silicone if still slumps, just for his visit/ doesn't bother me tbh, it's a workshop etc.