zoothorn

Exactly what I've thought of.. & it does tip it in this favour. But you've no idea how sneaky & the animosity here: not only these 2 but a worse couple other side of me, friends of theirs, who hate me so much to use dogmuck at me for 1.5 yrs (never proven/ seen but I know 100% them). I also sorted this by hurling it back at theirs.. but its only meant they're irate & opened a new front (noise complaint to council latest thing). Any other opportunity & they'll jump at. They cant PP complain themselves (cabin not seen to them), but will butter up new folks & suggestive manipulating -will- happen "does he have PP for that? its very big.. ooh I wouldn't be happy.. he caused them alot of stress with this cabin/ he never got PP" (lies, manipulation etc she's I admit superb at/ known for & done to me especially since I moved here 3 yrs ago: anti-english most of the reason). Thats not paranoia, or overthinking. Its what will happen.

Understood Dave. I would if it wasn't for my n'bors. I have no definite proof they've sold (just overheard so, albeit from Mr.sod in shop). Plus they recently put up a provocative 2-seat area, overlooking most of my gdn just across stream (1 year+ major fallout- this was deliberate), which I challenged them on pretty firmly "have you got PP for that??". Now taken away thank god, due to me whacking on my radio coinciding with them sitting nattering/ clinking away eating etc (unbearably close). so Ive won this & all quiet/ huge relief. But if a PP opportunity arises for them to get back at me.. they just will whether or not its just sold. So it is overthinking perhaps (they might not think any PP issues) or, its being prudent I don't know.

@joe90 I spoke to my pillar chap today who expected to start this tmrw, we had it pencilled in. He said honestly round here you just do it & crack on etc. But with your replies has entered doubt & anxiety etc. Anyway, if I had to move it 2m away from stream centre.. then I could only have a 2m wide cabin. And Im still none the wiser about the H where its measured from, or know whether I can overcome this 2m limit -IF- I were to get PP for it: IE maybe if I approached PP dept I might be able to overcome these limiting factors by way of 'approval' by them having approached them. I have no idea whatsoever. I cannot understand the list of rules/ the words & sentences used, or the implication of the covering email from my PP officer. The only thing stopping me just cracking on as I'd planned tmrw, is my sod n'bors probable calling PP dept. But I overheard him say they've sold the house/ starting the slow chain of move xyz.. yet no evidence as I can see.. so whether the time to just crack on might be as soon as they've gone & new folks in (who'd unlikely start a fuss with new only n'bor, or need to know its either not got PP, or that PP was ever needed for it) I'm not sure. What I do know is that shifting it over 2m from stream centre, because I'm then into the steep bank & very tricky ground to put the low footings into, makes the project pretty much not-doable. Plus I could only get a 2m wide cabin in. Alot of work & expense for not much shed: cost of just doing the 3 footings will be approx £600 which is about £200 more than I expected worse-case (say £200 on other footings & base) = £800.

I've been onto Land Registry to try & establish what status this bank, over stream, is: registered or unreg'd. This is a new avenue of complexity: I've got to get a specific index search, fill in forms/ send off with fee, just to get answer to who owns this bit of land (why can't they just tell me?). I was told before by Land Registry, that there are 2 unreg'd 'strips' between me & n'bor (the stream forms the boundary.. I think). Mysterious. It was clear before, that the bank was 1: but totally unclear now from another person there/ call I just made. Plan maps I have (Title Deeds) are so hopelessly small I have my house a pea size on an A4 sheet. I did get a reply from one of you (was it @PeterW ?) on a subject with a far better map of my property, lord knows how this was achieved: I wonder if that could be posted up again?

3 years now dpmillar.

Ok joe90 will do just that. Was still faffing in me cuttlefish dwellingthing at 10.30pm cutting great big tree down. I'm now thinking of invading this unreg'd land, marking it liberally with my zoot-musk & laying claim.. seriously if it might mean I can get it as I've spent alot of time in the planning, as per my pic.

For eg what preposterous nonsense is this " curtilage of the dwellinghouse " ! I mean for gods sake..

Thanks chaps. Unfortunately I'm as completely lost as I was. I don't know whether my (?) sketch is relevant, or totally irrelevant. And I can't comprehend the last few replies that followed it either. For eg @joe90 yes that's good for me.. but I don't know what you mean! (a better sketch than mine? yes). If I can go back a step. I was given this gobledigook page above by my planning officer. His covering email included the following (sorry I should have included): " Our understanding is that if the height of the building conflicts with (e) (i) and (ii) then you will need to apply for planning permission irrespective of height of land surrounding the proposed unit. " You see how he (& maybe someone else too) also seems to have to try & decipher it?

Ok if I interpret as you suggest, that in wales (for some odd reason- Id usually expect it less strict than england, or the same) it might then be measured from this L corner instead, I wonder in my case then if the H would be measured like this.. thoughts please

Partially understood, but the word adjacent here though could be interpreted thus(?): the ground "immediately adjacent" to the LH corner in my sketch, is not directly below it, but on a 45* diagonal line in to the bank disecting at a point directly below the centre of the structure instead. This call it 2 ft discrepency could span below & above the 4M figure. Is my brain actually working? it feels kind of hurty & strange.

But equally it could be interpreted as from the ground nearest the RHS point of the platform (in our sketches).. & what I think joe90 interpreted the H rule as measured from, right back beginning of conversation. This is what I mean, its nigh on impossible to comprehend this jargon. I call the PP chap himself to get clarity on it.. but instead gives me this info. If I cant understand it.. its catch22.

I wouldn't know the reason for doing so, let alone whether I could..

@joe90 @Temp here's an approx sketch. This is looking back at the house, behind the cabin. LHS of stream is unregistered land. Stream is prolly a bit away from my side than this tbh.

Just in from my Ceredigion planning officer: sorry its a bit long (its incomprehensible to me reading it 1x so far).. Permitted development E. The provision within the curtilage of the dwellinghouse of— (a) any building or enclosure, raised platform, swimming or other pool required for a purpose incidental to the enjoyment of the dwellinghouse as such, or the maintenance, improvement or other alteration of such a building, enclosure, platform or pool; or (b) a container used for domestic heating purposes for the storage of oil or liquid petroleum gas. Development not permitted E.1 Development is not permitted by Class E if— (a) the total area of ground covered by buildings, enclosures, raised platforms, pools and containers within the curtilage (other than the original dwellinghouse) would exceed 50% of the total area of the curtilage (excluding the ground area of the original dwellinghouse); (b) any part of the building, enclosure, raised platform, pool or container would extend beyond a wall comprised in the principal elevation of the original dwellinghouse; (c) any part of the building, enclosure, raised platform, pool or container would extend beyond a wall comprised in a side elevation of the existing dwellinghouse, and would be nearer to the highway than— (i) the wall comprised in that side elevation which is nearest to the highway; or (ii) any point 5 metres from the highway; whichever is the nearer to the highway; (d) the building would have more than one storey; (e) the height of any part of the building, enclosure or container, measured from the surface of the ground immediately adjacent to that part, would exceed— (i) 4 metres in the case of a building having a roof with more than one pitch; (ii) 3 metres in any other case; (f) any part of the building, enclosure or container would be— (i) within 2 metres of the boundary of the curtilage of the dwellinghouse; and (ii) exceed 2.5 metres in height above the surface of the ground immediately adjacent to it; (g) the height of the eaves of the building, measured at any point along their length, would exceed 2.5 metres; (h) any part of the building, enclosure, pool or container would — (i) be situated within 2 metres of the dwellinghouse; and (ii) exceed 1.5 metres in height above the surface of the ground immediately adjacent to it; (i) the building, enclosure, pool or container would be situated within the curtilage of a listed building;

@Temp many thanks for this, very useful diagram- what a fab tool to have (or a trained robotoid I don't know). It ain't far off at all! but for.. 1) Shift LHS pillar over the stream, & plonk it where your word "POOR" is (that L side of stream not my property, but unreg'd land). 2) Shift the platform & cabin down ~2 ft, so platform touches the ground RHS. 3) Steepen the slope gradient to a bit less than 45 degrees (yup that steep).

It seems I missed a post of yours a few back (how can I get notification of replies via email?). I think I understand the nature of your last few posts now, you're responding to when I referred to a decking surrounding the log cabin. Ok I need to discount this for now, as its confusing & complicating the answer I'm trying to find out: where the cabin H is measured from in my case (my fault I tempted fate by suggesting a surrounding bit of platform).

Apologies Temp but I don't understand where we are. Remove (remove what?) decking (what decking?). Is this meant to show me what a "worse case" might be or something? I don't understand the reason for your post(s) because I have no context in which to put them.

Hi Temp. But I'm not doing a decking job (am I?) any cabin will need a platform whether on a flat, slight slope or bigger slope, but whether the word 'decking' is appropriate.. I'm further confused than I was before. Are you only referring to my 'additional' ideas of some sort of "decking" surrounding the cabin here maybe? I just don't know how on earth I'm going to find the answers- as soon as you jump in, the complexities just grow exponentially.. but its just a big shed at btm of my garden, with no n'bors house visible from it, & unregistered land across the stream from it. How the dickens it should require any PP in the 1st place seems ridiculous to me.

Hi Temp. Ceredigion, Wales.

..mind you I know you mention 'government permitted development doc' which implies its national: but could these rules change from country to country, region to region even I wonder-?

@joe90 thanks for this. Great- these few lines gives me confidence. Good plan to email this to my PP dept. Slight panic as we half pencilled chap for friday to do stream footings you see. Mind you he hasn't got back to me yet on materials estimate, but be good to get this confirmed asap so I'm set ready.

Nope it wasn't. such a golden opportunity for a tremendous joke.. all been missed joe90. Listen don't count my brain into establishing xy or z, I think it just doesn't do portals. Wasn't your paragraph below your links, to do with extentions, rather than outbuildings though-?

Very grateful joe90.. waiting on the email: if he can find what he wants to send- tbh even this PP officer sometimes sounds bewidered by all the portal stuff too.. so it aint just me. I'm quite inclined to go ahead & put the sodding thing up.. but for my n'bors sitting waiting for any opportunity to strike back at me.

Just called my PP officer to try & get clarification.. who couldn't find relevant info there & then on call, so is emailing me something on. But it'll likely be the same page joe90 gave me. Joe where did you get your paragraph info from, below the 2 links in your last post.. somewhere in this portal?

Hi Joe Hi Joe, many thanks for this. Trouble is I cannot understand this portal page: I get so stressed reading it & can't make head or tail trying multiple times- its worded so complicatedly I find a number of answers to one simple question, or the next time I read it a different answer results: I just can't cope. I think it needs experience of complex building rules to interpret it or something. The second link starts out simple, along the lines you refer to, but the last reply.. again goes into total complex xyz something to do with it all relative to the house level, meaning I cannot understand this either. I will have to go on your far superior brain to interpret. Can you definitely say, from my design (basically like your sketch, pg 2 I think, the structure on the slope looking side-on) that the H would be taken from the ground @ the shortest platform side/ the highest ground side of the slope/ let's say adjacent to where my shortass 3x 1ft high (approx) piles would be-? sorry for my thickness.