zoothorn

@SimplySimon

hi JSH.. I understand the general ideas in reply to my Q, I wonder still though if a block outer course would add anything in terms of -wind- protection.. that's my main concern (my Q better put perhaps like so). You hinted "..wind loads" wouldn't be as good if a single skin: but wouldn't it matter inherrantly what the skins are made from though? I wonder if block would be the best barrier against the load from wind (especially hitting the end of my extention, sideways on). Are there any benefits to choosing a block cladding over a timber, for my build?

Could anyone tell me about a TF build, with block cladding: how much is the outer block course adding strength/ structural chutzpah to the TF core? I see the 'wall ties' ties on various builds, but are these ties to link the two structures purely for alignment purposes.. &/ or also a link in terms of structural rigidity?

@Roundtuit hi there- yes understood. But this is wild west wales, things just take forever here.. I had a similar wait for my quote on my chimney rebuild + other jobs from him. Its almost an ideal job for him, a few miles from his home, good access & knows me well. Anyway for now I need to consider an important thing in the design: containing the sound, within the lower room. I don't expect 'soundproofed' but I need every facet I can to aid sound retention- my sod n'bors now on my back re my router work/ council complaint. This gives me the hurry up. At the mo plan's going twds a TF inner frame, & block outer cladding bc of solidity but also adding density which I hope will help on the sound. I hope to use 'sound rockwool' for the insulation in the wall. Please, any advice on this aspect chaps- I'd be grateful. This has a new urgency now- I'm getting onto builder tonight. Thanks, zoot.

I have a nice n'bor said he'd dig trenches £25/ hr (his mini-digger). He's 71 but did his own for his TF build small house, useful eg just a few doors up (vertical weatherboard cladding idea), so is capable. And he's having a word with local chap he got to do his groundwork. So I hopefully can £save a chunk on my builder's quote for this stage of the build. So I'm waiting on this damn quote. Approaching a month now since I asked, just a few additions to a quote he gave me already (scaffold, g'work, doors & windows). How long should am I expected to wait? as a customer I feel if I hurry him, he may get the hump & whack up quote.

Ok that's good Ferdinand. Ok with the quote seems pretty good.. I need to know if extra strength can be added to frame, extra brackets? I'm so concerned with a TF structure at this spot. IAccording to builder a block build would be significantly dearer- I just get impression he doesn't want to go that route.

Right that's the image I was after- many thanks Russell. So I wonder what my builder's quote is up to if he quotes so vaguely for "external walls", & my plans he base the quote off (same as you see on my zoot's ext thread) clearly show a rendered finish? If so then image no.5 must be. For £13k his quote was for 'external walls, floor, roof'. I'm not sure the relevance of 'external': external relative to a separate internal wall/ course.. or external just a word for the 3 walls. His quote not inc groundwork, scaffold, doors/ windows, electrics, possibly not even inside pB too. Is 'for external walls.. £*k' a typical builder quote terminology, for a full wall?

Ok that helps Russell alot. So what are the options, instead of the bricks in 2nd TF construction pic?

@Russell griffiths hi there. Yes I think I am too. This is why I was hoping to do a thread & find out different methods, but maybe I'm getting confused between them. Ok thanks for your clarifying further the TF method, but doesn't the wall you outline also need a cavity between it & whatever is "on the outside" in order for 'weather not to bridge gap to inner wall'? I thought the cavity was the one constant compulsory needed by BRegs, consistant across different wall methods.

I asked for a quote for the walls, floor, roof > for me to come along & line after (I assumed this was fix battens in / c'tex/ pB) & this is what I got quote for. But a quote saying 'external walls...' doesn't tell me how many, whether one course or two (TF construction this was). Whether a TF needs two courses I don't know (nor do I know how the roof ontop of the 1st floor room, could be supported then if you say a block course couldn't support a roof).

Apparantly I have 5 years PeterW so no worries (not that I plan a 5 year prep!) its already 1.5 years since granted, but still not probs. Its getting it up as cheaply as possible absolutely, but with the important factor of SOLIDITY needed too.. this is why my care in choosing walls. A n'bor (nice one with digger, we've agreed £25/hr for my footings so that's good) has a TF house recently made. Asking him if he heard it creak & groan with weather.. said yes it did a bit. This concerned me into thinking at least one block course would be sensible, bc as I say I get hammered on this side of the house weather chanells up our valley > whack onto front of this extention. I had just assumed, as it was the more solid of the two courses that block would be the inner one, which supports the roof I think is the general rule.

But my builder gave me a quote a year ago, basically for 'external TF walls, roof, floor between'. It was unclear whether that meant -both- wall courses (or if a TF build needs two I don't know yet) or just the one course.. but anyway no block mentioned > & a roof on. How so?

So in order to hold up the roof, it must have 2 courses of block, as a certainty then-?

So getting back to walls, could I go inner course block / outer course (vertical wood-clad) something or other?

@PeterW I spoke to PP re. possible minor 3 changes: cladding, slightly longer overall (250 cm), & open apex. A non-material ammendment needed which I know how/ done one b4 (& critically- doesn't need go to n'bors to judge: big plus factor). Open apex redo n/a for PP. Good. So now I'm in a better position to slightly re-consider the design. And once (I hope) PP ok, I can consider drawing BRegs application- as its a simple design/ & I have an art background of sorts (why Im not so good on rules & protocol)- although as it is so simple, & as my BCO knows my builder 'very well indeed'.. I wonder if the Building Notice avenue is appropriate. I'll ask next time I hear from my builder- his advice is good.

Yes understood- I just called my BCO (nice & patient & helpful too, thank god!) who says BRegs application NOT yet made: & I could do myself, or my AC do it.. OR (& I'm not quite following this option) as you alluded to PeterW, I can get BRegs approved (or something instead of BRegs?) via a 'building notice', & mentioning my builder 'he knew very well'. Whether this means me apply via this route, or my builder, I ran out of steam trying to understand. So at the mo I'm waiting on a quote. But have I done this too early, or too late? & when do I apply for BRegs? IE if I am still slightly redesigning the 'open apex' aspect to room2 (as I had no idea this just wasn't to be done on my submitted PP application) & with more wall info perhaps choosing wood cladding instead now.. am I effectively starting the whole process again?

Called my BCO, for clarity & says as you did PeterW. I'm separating walls info for here, & PP & BRegs/ general extention onto other thread https://forum.buildhub.org.uk/topic/9742-zoots-extension-advice-needed/?page=3&tab=comments#comment-167863 thanks.

Hi Carrerahill- I understand what you say, apply for PP > then for BR. I have to establish 1st if I need to do this (may be different in wales, or, I may have done some BR thing already 'in with the PP' application.. as someone has hinted maybe might be so in my case). So I need to call the BCO I think to find out what's what as I'm totally lost. Then if its needed, I need to establish who makes this application (me, builder, my 'architectural consultant'.. is this what I'm paying him £1.5k for??) & then what it entails.

Forgetting my particular PP for the moment: it seems I'd no idea the finish was decided at this stage: I thought PP was -only- to do with the size, shape, & location of the extention. I thought then the finish specs a building regs thing IE once PP got I had a choice of wall & finish methods to then choose > then I go to a builder for a quote. Looks like Ive done the whole thing backwards. So I might have to go back to PP. But, if I had to anyway due to opening up the top room ceiling (?) & these vertical clad things look good if not better than boring smooth render.. I can't see a problem. Non-material ammendment is it? I might add a foot to overall length anyway as I'm there. In terms of construction only, could I have a block inner course + cavity/ insulation, then something -other- than block or brick as my outer course? this vertical wood cladding for eg? if Timber Frame Co's say "the outer course.. world's your oyster/ up to you entirely you can have xyz"

Understood Peter. But if these two will look the same on the outside A) a block course + render.. & B) a wood course + "render board" then have I got PP for "any sort of rendered outside regardless of what material is behind the outer rendered layer"?

It sounds like I'll have to go back anyway, if my top room wasn't 'open'? ok so now I know I have to have insulation: I didn't know this was compulsory. Is anything else compulsory within the wall structure? I had no idea the PP was for a wall method already chosen: I thought the wall method choosing came after PP, but before I get quotes. You see how impossible this process is for me/ anyone to understand how to progress? there are simply no guidelines. As to where would I be putting this insulation in my eg, I don't know: all I know is I see builds with this vertical cladding. If there's a separate, inner course (?) & this is the outer course, & its compulsory to have insulation- then the eg's I see MUST have insulation. So to answer your Q: "wherever that one's insulation is/ however that was done". I thought it might be a usual wall type I could be told of. Options so far I think are: block/ block, TF (which seems to be timber + block, or timber + timber.. or is it.. I'm confused by TF), ICF which I've never seen & don't see on builds anywhere here, & my vertical-clad eg.. which I don't know how is done so unknown if an option I can choose.

Ok Peter- many thanks for that. Did I get it wrong then, that the outer course of your wall above, instead could be timber of some sort.. or something other than block-? 2 block courses seems way overkill for my workshop, if not the small room above too. I was thinking recently along the lines of (in terms of solidity, & what I might be able to afford, & right approach for the design).. inner course block > cavity (if I have to) > outer vertical wood cladding (those ~4" strips, in-out-in etc). Is this not allowed then?

Thanks chaps. My house is an old miner's cottage, 3ft thick slate, side wall to build onto is an uneven/ 'contoured' typical stone surface. What I'm trying to understand, is the 'layers' of different options, & what I have to do to meet regulations regarding my wall construction. For eg, would I be allowed to go simply one block course / roof ontop (ceiling joists separating the two rooms via metal ties between walls).. lining inside walls with battens > insulate > plasterboard.. for either room, or even both?

Hi- I have a very simple proposed small extention. Upstairs room (an extention of house, a bedroom/study), over a workshop below. 4x5m floor area. I have a tight budget (doing the 'easier' build stuff myself) but need solidity too- weather pummels the spot. So far I have successfully got PP. Q: If I rule out block > cavity > brick, due to budget.. what are my options of wall construction? (waddle & daub ruled out too!). I understand one option is timber frame > cladding, but the 'cavity' part I'm confused if regs stipulate a fixed size, or if a cavity isn't compulsory (with any wall?). And no. of courses etc. thanks zoot.

Understand roughly, but what is a full cut roof? (prefabricated/ lowered on via crane?). If steel (RSJ's woud that be) does this mean timber frame construction is therefore ruled out- I'm trying to visualise where these steels would be, onto what they might sit onto. Also thought of a (small) step down into room2 myself. I wonder if a "compromised" roof could be considered: ie a ceiling, but pushed up high.. like the cross member of an "A" shape?