AliG

The point I am trying to make is simply how to value the property. A large number of the possible buyers of the flat would have to pay second home related taxes so the value has likely fallen due to that. It is also worth considering who we might be able to sell it to after university. I had a discussion about this a few years ago at work and was very much persuaded by a colleague who I didn’t always agree with. Despite stamp duty being paid by buyers in terms of who settles the bill. Stamp duty goes up, prices go down and vice versa. Buyers have fixed buying power set by wages, savings, mortgage rates etc. If they have a large extra bill to pay then that reduces what they can pay for something. Even if we don’t have to pay the extra I am still considering how it has impacted the value to other buyers. Scottish first time buyers only pay no stamp duty below £175k. Over that they get a fixed £600 off what the stamp duty would have been.

Oh yes it will be hers, basically gifting her the money. But the sellers own it as a holiday home and I have to believe that a large part of the market is holiday homes and student lets, especially looking at small flats. These have to be worth less than they were 6 months ago due to tax increases. I just don't want to overpay, pointed this out to the agent. Interestingly he didn't push back or suggest any other offers had been made. Main reason to do this is she wants to live on her own and also I don't want issues with trying to find a rental every year, dealing with landlords and so on. A lot of student rental stock is pretty poor, the new purpose built stuff is crazy expensive for what you get, you're talking £14000 a year for a 20sq metre room. However, a bonus, if you are in the fortunate position of having cash available, is that the return on cash after tax is appalling. So, say I am getting 4% interest on cash, this is only 2.2% after tax. Higher inflation makes tax on interest basically a wealth tax (You earn more interest to cover higher inflation, so are effectively paying tax on inflation). Therefore the loss of interest after tax is way way less than I would be paying in rent. I would save the equivalent of around £6000 a year, basically covers transaction costs after 1 year.

Made an offer so in wait and see mode. Not being a landlord I didn't realise all the changes to second home council tax, LBTT etc. The flat is being used as a holiday home. So I am guessing the 200% tax will really sting. They have also upped additional property LBTT in Scotland to 6% of the total price. This also applies for a corporate purchase. So the value of places up for rent, which would be the main value of this place must have fallen. My guess is that values should have fallen around 5% because of these two changes and this is not reflected in the home report valuation which was done before this. I guess the purpose of the changes is to make houses a lot more expensive for landlords than owner occupiers and I think that is fair. I'm not going to have to pay this and it does look as if it is reaching the limits of what is reasonable. TBH I'm surprised prices haven't fallen between this and interest rate increases.

I think it would be cheaper to be on a time of use tariff now anyway.

Been to see the flats again. What I thought was a big hot water tank was actually two tanks. Hot water below and cold water above. The pump kicks in when you use a hot tap and gives good hot water pressure. I assume that the electric shower if necessary due to the small size of the hot tank. There was good cold water pressure in the kitchen which presumably is connected to the mains and poor cold water pressure in the bathroom which is presumably connected to the cold tank. Should I be able to replace both tanks with a UVC connected direct to the mains and do away with the pump and electric shower? One flat had an e7 timer on the wall. The other just had a switch which said hot water and timers on the electric radiators which makes me think they have done away with e7.

Yes, I will run taps when I am there tomorrow to see if I can get an idea of what is going on. I don't understand why there appears to be pump next to the tank and the shower is also pumped. The tank pump did look ancient in the one flat we saw last week. I'll try and get a picture of it. I also noticed that the electric shower seemed to be a new addition as new pipes had been knocked through the wall to it from the cupboard behind. Maybe the tank pump gave out and this was the solution. We could conceivably have six months before my daughter has to move into the place so plenty of time to do it up. It is extremely well located and I suspect that a lot of buyers wouldn't have the time or inclination to renovate so I could get my money back on the renovation as well as having a nicer place to live. There is a reason we live in a brand new house we built ourselves!

A very good point. One of the two flats is top floor and we do have a preference for this reason. Luckily as all the flats are one bed it shouldn’t be too noisy. Daughter is currently in halls and HATES sharing due to other people never cleaning up after themselves. Many people it seems leave home without ever having done any cleaning themselves. Also person in the room next to her seems to be living on US time and constantly video calling people after midnight. However heating and hot water are free and they have underfloor heating! We don’t know the thermal makeup of the building. The EPC uses assumed figures. It appears to be block built cavity construction from the mid 80s with the original double glazing which seems in surprising good condition. All the internal walls seem to be solid also. Loft has 170mm of insulation that we can top up. As it is quite small heating shouldn’t be too big an issue. My main other issue is Artex ceilings in a flat built in 1985 could have asbestos in them. I know it’s fine if left in situ but I’d remove it if it is asbestos or skim if it’s just Artex. There is very little choice. Either much older places in worse condition or much more expensive newer places. Onerous stamp duty in Scotland makes me want to keep the price down.

Looks like I need to have a closer look at the system when we go look at the two flats again tomorrow. Considering the hot water tank and apparent pump next to it, I wonder if there is a pressure issue. Presumably low water pressure could limit my options. I might take some pictures for people to comment on. I have zoomed in on the brochures and both showers appear to be full Mira electric showers. Not clear why you would need these when there is a hot water tank.m Having listened to people I am certainly leaning towards replacing the tank with a new UVC and then having just a mixer shower but I guess I could have flow or pressure issues that might make this difficult.

The existing tank is an old school one covered in yellow foam, so the only saving I was thinking of was less heat loss in the tank. It looked like it was easily 200l or more. Probably would save 1-2kWh a day in heat losses. If the tank and pump need replaced anyway due to their age the choice is a new UVC or a new electric combi. Actually looking at costs, maybe a new UVC is a simpler/cheaper solution. This would also allow the power shower to be eliminated. Indeed I would only get an electric combi with an integrated tank as heating hot water on demand would be very expensive. This relies on the system allowing the water temp to drop to a lower set point during the day before it kicks in to reheat it with a higher set point during the night. I believe that this should be doable.

I thought I couldn't find the noise level, but I had missed it and it is indeed 50dB which is probably too loud. The Dimplex EDEL is only 36 which would be fine, but that just gets you hot water. A few companies make these, I am surprised they have not configured them for heating also. You really think a 150mm penetration would be an issue, it is no different to a boiler flue. (Would need to check the deeds, but it is freehold property in Scotland so I don't think you need permission, planning would be required on the front elevation) Even if I don't do anything, I did think this thread would be useful as installing ASHPs in flats is not something I have really seen discussed.

Yes they are expensive, but would likely be a little cheaper than the current very old hot water tank. Fair question. The hot water tank and pump appear to have been installed when the flat was built, so at 40 years old I would think it is the to replace them and it will be empty for a few months, so now is the time if it needs doing. It would also allow us to get rid of the power shower. TBH that is maybe just my bias against them. Good point on MCS, it appears not when I just looked at the register, making the question moot. The EPC suggests installing heat retention storage radiators. This would probably be a good idea as you could charge them up a lower prices during the night. However, they are surprisingly expensive at £6-800 a piece plus installation.

We are looking at buying a 1 bed flat for our daughter at university, will be in her name. There are two that we are interested in both in the same building. One is top floor, one is mid floor. 46sq metres. EPC suggests around 5000kWh of energy use a year 1500 for DHW and 3500 for space heating (4000+ for top floor) The flat is around 40 years old. It has electric storage heaters, a hot water tank with immersion heater I think on e7 and an electric power shower. There appeared to maybe be a pump connected to the hot water tank, it looked like something built by Edison! It wasn't clear to me why they have a power shower if there is a hot water tank, would this possibly be a pressure issue or is it just incase there is no hot water? I have never had a power shower so don't know much about them. We would refurbish the flat, new bathroom etc. The more expensive flat has a new kitchen. I was considering replacing the ancient hot water tank and power shower with an electric combi, I had one in my apartment in London and it worked well for a low user. Various things spring to mind. The electric combi should have a tank so that hot water can be heated and stored at overnight prices. These appear to cost around £2000. No doubt installation would be expensive due to rerouting of pipework. I was thinking that most hot water would be heated overnight, so the saving of using an ASHP to heat other water would not be worth the extra cost. You'd only save around £100 a year. But when I looked at indoor ASHP hot water tanks such as this- https://www.electricpoint.com/dimplex-edel-hot-water-cylinder-heat-pump-170l-edl170uk-520rf.html I was shocked to see that they barely lost any more than an electric combi. Just a few hundred pounds extra. I then remembered that in Scotland you can get an ASHP grant, but only for heating and hot water I believe, so if I could replace the heating also the system would be free. The flats are in a conservation area and getting permission from both the council and other owners for an exterior mounted ASHP fan seems unlikely. But I found this product - https://trianco.co.uk/activair-indoor-9111-9111 This is a ducted indoor ASHP (Not sure if I would need permission to drill a couple of 150mm holes in the wall). The small output would be fine in this case. This along with a new UVC and radiators would fully upgrade the apartment, rust in much lower bills and CO2 output and possibly not cost me anything or much at all to install due to the grant. The flat has quite a large utility cupboard with an outside wall as well as a hot water tank cupboard so there is plenty of room to install things. I assume rerouting pipework won't be a deal breaker. Does anyone have an experience of these systems or know of a similar indoor ASHP?

I have removed the house photo. Really I don’t think the builder is likely to see this and even if they did I don’t think you said anything that they would be upset about. It is just a genuine question.

I think you didn’t attach the pics

Is that an upstairs room? If so I would wonder if it was blocked gutters causing water ingress. The picture is quite shadowed so it is hard to say. Any damp would be coming from outside most likely so I would check outside. Otherwise it might just be movement in the building, plaster has no give in it and cracks easily.

You’re right I have looked at putting in an electric panel heater and indeed have tried one which did the job. If it was me I might have done this. But all the panel heaters I have looked at have horrible timer systems. They purport to have various apps etc but seem to be extremely fiddly to program. Unless you spend close to the price of adding a new radiator. It is a lot easier for my parents to have a radiator connected to the hall loop so it works off the same thermostat. Indeed running the flow lower would improve efficiency and save money. That’s the plan once the radiator is in place. Assuming something like 500kwh a year of output from this radiator, it saves around £75 a year using the ASHP vs a panel heater so it will soon pay for the modest extra cost on installation. I have been quoted around £500. It will be within a couple of feet of the manifold so is a very easy job.

It's the glass. My hall and my parents' hall both have enormous amounts of glass and are double height. I did, however, tell my mum to leave the kitchen door open and it made a noticeable difference tbf. Although of course she doesn't like it.

Heat loss isn't affected by height, just the external areas. Halls aren't normally designed for 21, and normally rob or borrow heat from every room attached to it. Yes, but a double height hall has twice the wall area and one of the walls is entirely glass, so it has much more heat loss than a normal room of similar size. Do they have thick carpet? Have increased the flow rate in those loops to give more energy out. Run those loop 50% higher, so you get a lower dT (differential temperature). Then move the curve back down to lower flow temp. I have never been above 35 and we have UFH at 300mm centres. Various issues. Late 70s parents like to keep the house ridiculously warm. It is uncomfortably hot for me. They don't like the hall being colder than other rooms. The weather compensation curve was set to run the flow between 35 and 45C ramping up from 35C at 5C and above outside to 45C at -5C outside. I can see from the Heatmiser thermostats that the UFH rarely runs for more than 15 minutes in all the other rooms in the house. So for all the other rooms the flow could be 35C or indeed probably less. It is a tiled screed floor. The hall is an issue for multiple reasons. Many of these reasons will apply to any hall. 1. Double height means that there is a greater wall area to lose heat. 2. It contains about 30% of the glass in the whole house. 3. There are no UFH pipes under the stairs or in the understair cupboard 4. The pipework running to the other rooms is insulated, further reducing the floor area available to heat the hall (TBH I hadn't realised ow much area would be lost to this). 5. The only heating upstairs is electric bathroom radiators, so some heat is also lost to the upstairs rooms. I guessed it might be an issue and had the installers reduce the pipework to 150mm centres. The problem is that because of the lost floor area mainly due to the stairs and UFH runs to other rooms, you are trying to heat the whole volume from only around 8sq metres of floor, the total floor area of the space is 18sq metres and it is 5.5m high. At 50C flow, this has an output of around 86W/m2, so only around 700W. I calculated that the space needs around 1.2kW when the temperature is -5C (The whole house only needs 3.5kW at this temp). So we need to add around a 2500BTU radiator to the space (Maybe 3000 to allow a bit of overhead). This would produce 500W of output with a flow temp of 45C. @ChrisInKent likely has some of the same issues as regards to heat requirements for a double height hall versus the amount of floorspace available to produce heat from UFH. Although as I have said this issue would require an extra radiator, or closer pipe spacing, not a larger ASHP. What does that mean? Sorry typo - Heat the hot water faster.

My parents have a similar sized house 0.14 U-Value, less than 1x air changes, MVHR, triple glazing and get by just fine with an 8kW heat pump. We actually upsized the heat pump to heat the hot eater faster, 5kW was good enough for the heat loss calculations. However, they have a double height hall with a glass wall. It accounts for a very high percentage of the heat loss in the whole house (I think around 1/3 from memory). Even with the UFH flow at 50C it struggles to heat the hall to 21C when it is below 0 outside. The flow could be much lower for all other spaces in the house, I turned it up on the weather compensation curve for this reason. When I calculated the output from the floor area, I discovered it was not enough relative to the heat loss of a double height room. We have asked for an extra radiator to be attached to the manifold and put on the half landing. That seems to be what they are getting at, but that would be fixed by adding a radiator, a larger ASHP would have no impact on this issue at all.

This is actually part of what caused Brexit If you ask me. The EU insists on all member countries abiding by similar immigration rules. But the UK was seeing some of the fastest population growth in Europe whilst other countries were seeing population declines. Strict adherence to arbitrary rules irrespective of circumstances is never a good idea. The freedom of movement rules could have been modified to take into account population growth targets.

I'd say that looks a bit expensive, by 10-20% the two doors would cost around £2000 to buy including VAT. Maybe if they split the quote into supply and fitting costs it would help. Depends on how much work is involved in fitting them.

I don't disagree with that, although the issue existed before this latest debacle made it worse. It is a spectacular failure for the Tories to campaign on reducing net migration only to see it explode under their management. Irrespective of whether you agree with their policies, they campaigned for one thing and achieved the exact opposite and have unsurprisingly been punished for it.

Yes planning is devolved. The guy is currently the local Labour councillor so does ave some impact on planning issues. Nevertheless, Labour describe this as their "Plan for Britain" and their Scottish manifesto has on it "Planning reform to get Scotland building" It is not unusual for devolved policy to be similar to England and Wales policies. It is Labour policy to ease planning and build more houses everywhere in Britain. There is a good chance that Labour will form the next Scottish government. The point anyway is that politicians are hypocrites. It is clearly Labour policy to encourage building houses, but how many Labour MPs, or for that matter MPs of all parties with similar aspirations to see more houses built, have simultaneously stood for more building on a national level whilst being against specific building on a local level. This use of local planning as a way to canvas votes is the very reason that planning rules have to be changed to reduce local political interference.

Two posts as this is separate to my above point. Assuming a roughly 100 year lifespan for a house, we need to build around 300,000 houses a year just for replacement. In the short run of course whilst houses are in short supply they are less likely to be replaced. A target of 400,000 a year would be needed to keep up with this and population growth and maybe eat into the shortage that has been created by building only 200,000 a year for many years. The number of households has also been increasing driven by the increase in single person households. The trouble is that planning alone won't achieve this. There presumably aren't enough people available to build 300,000 houses a year, there are not thousands of unemployed tradesmen at the moment. It requires a bit of imagination. For example could prefabricated social housing be built? On site build costs are high and quality variable. Maybe something more standardised and mass produced could be created. The broader picture is that the shortage of housing/building land is in my opinion behind an enormous amount of problems in the UK. People do not realise how the cost of property impacts the cost of everything. Supermarkets, cinemas, pubs etc all have some of their costs driven by development and building costs and this is passed on to consumers in higher prices. The combination of this plus overpriced housing reduces everyone's standard of living. It also drives up taxes. Infrastructure invariably costs way more to build in the UK than elsewhere. The government also spends a fortune on housing benefit which is rising with increasing rents. To fix this I would propose whatever measures necessary, planning is one, to not only encourage house building but all kinds of infrastructure. NIMBYs should not be able to excessively delay wind farms new railways etc. This is costing everyone money. Now lots of people have mortgages audit is dangerous for the economy to have house prices collapse, but if there was a road to gradually reducing the shortage over time by building say 400,000 homes a year you could see house prices and rents rising below inflation over time with people gradually getting better off. It would be a very slow fix, but the problem has been 30 years in the making.

Prior to the election I got into an argument with our local Labour candidate, now MP and a Facebook group trying to stop a new development being built a couple of miles away. Funny how labour policy is to try and ignore local objections, yet he was massively in favour of them in the run up to the election. My argument was that the land where building was proposed was within the bounds of Edinburgh (inside the city bypass which is normally considered the boundary of the town with greenbelt on the other side). Thus it has access to buses, shops etc and would be a much more sustainable place to build than out of town. Local residents have got up an almost 1000 people Facebook group and similar number of objections to a new development. Their objections are nonsense in my opinion. Edinburgh has a target of 35,000 houses to be built. A lot of land has been allocated to this target outside of town on the greenbelt where there is literally no infrastructure at all, no schools, roads, buses, nothing. The locals' argument is that it is hard to get registered with a doctor locally and into the local school (just built with a nearby development) and that traffic will get worse. I pass through the area all the time. Traffic is much less bad than the main area of development around the airport and it there are no doctors with capacity for the 35,000 houses due to be built no matter where they are in the town, so this is in now way a reasonable argument to not build in this area, it is just a straw man argument from NIMBYs. I put up a very robust argument against every point they made. I doubt they will get permission this time, but I reckon they will five to ten years down the road. Indeed every contentious plot of land in the town in the last 20 years has ended up being built on, just later than expected after years of arguing. Perhaps this shows what a real waste of time and money it all is. Usually stuff gets built eventually.