Roger440

Pretty much sums up what will happen. Or rather is happening. 5 years from now, lots of hand wringing, statements about lessons being learnt, lots of companies having "disappeared" as fast as they came, clutching vast sums of taxpayer cash. And lots of people with ineffectual heating systems. As inevitable as night follows day.........................................

I was thinking water based solar to heat water, both DHW and heating circuit. No grid connection required. Just a very big tank. Supplemented by boiler, GSHP, ASHP. Maybe some electrical as per Prodave. Granted, not going to be easy on a small site, but with a bit of space, might work?

Given that electric, gas, and oil prices are all only going one way, both through demand and government market distoring measures, surely as part of any installation you should be considering solar, thus reducing reliance on whatever energy source you choose. Whilst the hardware may cost, its a much more certain running and payback cost. I think even this government would find it hard to tax sunsine!!

The evidence on the ground says plaster doesnt breathe. Do you have a link tosomething that says it does? Though im inclined to believe the evidence of my own eys.

Im not bright enough to do multiquote, so take these in order 1. I agree. Ludicrous idea. 2. You dont need an inner wall if its not damp. We are going round in circles here. The insulation i discussed in my previous post. What do you mean the existing wall will "not be available".? 3. In which case, the various solutions available would seem to make more sense, and applied to a dry wall. 4. Who cares? It is what it is. Its 2 walls only at ground floor level only. There is nothing i can do about it, especially in light of the flood risk. Any solutions that will survive flood, beyong straight lime plaster, are not compatible with keeping the wall dry long term. 5. Dont tell them? Lie? Thats what i did. BCO adds nothing to the process other than likely trying to impose inappropiate solutions. Which will potentially cost YOU money when they dont work. Frankly i have NO time for the process. I have a suite of certificates for bits of the house generally. NONE of the jobs comply with the regs. All signed off though. Totally and utterly pointless system. Architects? Mostly i suspect, dont really understand. For every 50 jobs, they probably get one where its an issue. Its not a surprise unless you find a specialist one. You would take a transit to a VW specialirt to get it fixed would you? 6, Ive said all there is to say.

Im unclear why you need any holes? Once the building is complete, and you have stopped the source of water ingress, why do you need to do anything else. Im at a loss as to why you need "holes". As i explained in my earlier post, i too had wet walls. I dont now. There are no holes. Still dont understand. And what is it you have "one chance of doing"? With my solution you will add NO thickess to the wall. Do nothing, apart from reistate a roof etc and let it dry out. IF you want insulation, and ask yourself if you really do in this instance, then the usual lime product supliers all offer IWI systems that DONT leave an air gap. Why are you simply not using one of these? Some are LABC approved. No air gap, less added thickness. Completely breathable. Problem fixed. Ive chosen NOT to insulate, just lime plaster internally. That decision however is primarily driven by the fact that i am flood prone, and all of the options use various natural materials such as woold, woodfibre, cork etc. These are unlikely to cope well with flood conditions. Lime plaster will likely be fine given such flood events are very short duration. Were i not in this position id be investgating the various IWI optins and selecting accordingly. As Simon said, adding bitumen, realistically, is only likey to add problems. Its the go to solution by builders who are ignorant of how to deal with older buildings. Its plenty common enough. My neighbours did it.

Surely its capped with a vent? Rather than open to the elements? If its still open, cap it with a vent. Then buy one off these: https://www.chimneysheep.co.uk/ In the summer if you fancy a bit of cooling, pull it out.

The bit about no roof was a key detail i think you left out! But, never mind. If you say it will be dry, why do you want to line it? I dont understand this. You also, correctrly, mention losing the thermal benefit of the masonary. Your proposed scheme does exactly doesnt it? So you will surely need more insulation thickness that you could otherwise reduce. Once the wall is dry and repointed propely, driving rain isnt likely to penetrate 600m. If conditions are that bad, render it. I dont follow your thought process here.

I missed this post. My answer is, your wall is wet. It shouldnt be. So fixing the wet issue is fixing the problem rather than applying a cover up. Will that be easy? Possibly not. Im not sure what i did was easy, but it was logical and highly effective. I certainly woudnt run a liner up the wall. Sure, if its a quick job to tart it up and scarper. But long term, you will make the problem worse as you have removed an evaporation path. Assuming its lime mortar, it will decay and break down. How quickly? who knows. I know im an outlier compared to most of the building trade, but im firmly in the fix it once, fix it right camp. The answer to your opening line is number 3.

Well, yes. But the wall will be wet forever.

Just about everything is breathable. Its a term bandied about by all the manufactuers. The question is to what extent. What makes you believe it matches lime in this regard?

What renders are these? Do you know the sd value and MVT values?

Cladding it wont make it less wet. Just cover it up and arguably make it worse.

Yes, sadly it does come across a bit "ranty". However, pretty much everything is actually correct. He just could have said it differently! Going back to the beginning, the actual question is, why is the wall wet? Not "how can i cover it up?" Yes, thats what often happens. But long term this cant end well. Regardless of the surface finish on the wall, its almost certainly built with some sort of lime/earth type mortar. If permanently wet it will decay. The stones be granite will be fine in this case. What your picture shows is what happens when the water is trapped in the wall. Indeed, it exactly what was happening to mine. Mines is a very permeable lightweight brick with traditional lime mortar and no DPC. When i bought it, it was plaster with gypsum on the side, the floor was concrete over a plastic sheet. In some places the ground level outside was higher than inside. There were 3 hearths one on top of the other, and the chimney uncapped. The oustside is rendered. Mostly in lime but patched in cement, but painbted with a modern masonary paint. The walls were wet, and had been for a long time. There were 3 hearths one on top of the other, and the chimney uncapped. The socket back boxes , circa 500mm up from level had rotted away entirely as a result. Of you drilled a hole in the wall, all that came out was a wet slurry. Humidity in that room was normally over 90%. Oh, and it had had a chemical DPC added at some point. Percieved wisdom was tank it internally. Problem with that, is you are trating the symptom, not the problem. A good analogy, is, if you washed your clothes and put them in a plastic bag and hung them on a washing line, what do you think will happen? Thats what you are doing by tanking it. The moisture will simply go ever futher up the wall. So i set about sorting all the problems in mentioned, speeded up by the fact we had a flood, so we had to strip out carpets etc. Prior to the flood i had already sorted out the ground levels outside, in particular the gable end wall. The chimney was capped with a vented cap, so in no longer rained in the fire place. I had to repoint the brick work below the render, all done in lime, and the cement pointing removed. After the flood, plaster came off first which allowed me to easily see what was wet and how far up. Wasnt a metre but over 500mm in places. The drying out started straight away. Within a month, 90% showed no visible damp apart from the 1st visible course above the floor. Then we pulled up the concrete floor. The ground was wet under the DPC, as you would expect. I then left it for about 8 months. During that time its completey dried out. Evertyhing, walls, the dirt floor, even the limestone foundation stones. Some of the mortar fell out as it had disintegrated through being wet. Humidity, with NO floor, sits around 70-75% Its now dry. No damp in the walls. Simply becuase it can now function the way it did before it was built. Ie, moisture can arrive and evaporate. Yes, accepted it does require a degree of ventilation, and yes, that will ulitmately limit the level of thermal efficency you can apply. But a dry house feels warm, a wet house cold. 2 weeks ago we finally got the floor laid. Foamed glass as the insulating & foundation layer, lime screed over the top. The principle here is to insulate, but allow moisture to pass through if it needs too. Water were it exist under there cannot "wick up" the foamed glass. I will admit, when i started this, i was sceptical that this was going to resolve the issues. Frankly, its staggering the difference and speed at which that occurred., though the nature of the bricks involved probably helped the speed. From an engineering perspective it makes perfect sense however. Sadly, most builders are not engineers. As many on this forum will testify, most still dont grasp the basics of how to install insulation, dew points etc. Its no surprise inappropiate solutions are applied frequently. Because im sad, im always looking at old houses, and shaking my head in disbelief at the things that people doo. Back to mine. To finish off, limestone tiles on a lime based adhesive. Lime plaster with a suitable natural paint over. And this is they key. Every layer needs to be breathable. Everyone clains there products are breathable. They are not, at least not to a level that is remotely useful in these applications. Ask for the breathability data. What is the actual number? Take that for a lime render for example. Then compare to masonary paint, cement, gypsum etc. Tells you everything you need to know. My rather short post originally should really read, fix the problem, not the solution. There's a reason, probably several, why your wall is wet. Your picture is not it. Its just a reflection on the state of your wall. Indeed, a reflection of mine. Critically it shows everything pushing the moisture TOWARDS the wall. That IS the actual problem i had. Caused by inappropiate materials and methods.

Does it have a DPC?

Im suggesting you have a read of the links i posted. I could write it all myself, but to be honest, my attempt would likely be half arsed. Ive no idea why you think im "passive aggresive"???? Have a read of some useful info IS my advice. Not sure why i bothered now...........................

You really should aquait yourself with proper facts as per my message above. As i posted elsewhere on the forum, ive spent the last 12 months sorting out mine and undoing the kind of stuff your are being advised to do. To be honest, i was sceptical. The results however, speak for themselves.

That is EXACTLY the wrong thing to do. Where on earth did you read that? Before you ruin your house, you would do well to aquaint yourself with these: https://www.heritage-house.org/ https://www.periodproperty.co.uk/forum/viewforum.php?f=1

Thats is surely the point of a private BCO. To get a certificate regardless. Money talks. Mind you, our council BCO does the same. Stevie wonders brother it seems. Whole system is pointless and broken.

Well, ive just installed some. But i was referring to above ground. But the UFH has an aluminium liner. Why. Degredation and pipes popping apart. Been the victim of the latter. Never had a soldered joint "pop apart". I simply dont believe plastic pipes subject to heat cycling will last like copper does. Which is essentially a lifetime.

I admire all you chaps faith in plastic. Its not shared.

Would echo this. Looks like lime mortar to me. If its got no DPC you are likely to create new problems with regular motar and plaster.

Are you really sure EPS has the required permiability. I doubt it very much. Ask for the actual values. Compare to a pure lime product. I think you will be surprised. Almost everyone claims "breathability". Pretty much everything is. But at what level. If they wont tell you, theres probably a reason for that. I know im in danger of looking like an extremist limeist (is that a thing?) but i know what i see.

This never makes any sense to me. Where is the wall "breathing to". If its a sealed void it can get out. If its not sealed, surely it rather renders EWI pointless?

Interesting thoughts on the ty -mwar EWI. Do you have any thoughts on their interior systems?