Roger440

You mention moves to decouple the electricity price. Where have you seen these moves? I see nothing of the sort. Probably because too many people making mad money from it at our expense. The government could have done that early on instead of spraying cash about. Genuinely interested in your source of info for that. I agree, insulation and air tightness is a no brainer. However, for the part of the house with solid walls, overdoing it on insulation is likely to cause a bunch of other issues by moving the dew point closer to the inside of the wall. Hence my comment about there being limits to what can be achieved. As you also observe, things will change during the liftime of the heating system, which is what makes it so hard to choose. If you choose one system, such as ASHP, you are committed. Hence my "multi input" approach that im considering. Which on the face of it is a bunch of upfront costs, but by doing all the installation myself, i can, hopefully keep it sensible. I do have the possibility of some hydro, but ive not yet got round to checking how much head of water ive actually got. Rough guess it will be sub 500w, albeit thats continuous all winter. As always, the upfront cost, even doing it myself, is such that payback is a million years. Which is such a shame as hydro is the ultimate clean power. You can get energy from it over and over again. I can use it, then the same water can be used by the next guy downstream. Shame they make it so hard to do. Oh, and ive got 5 acres, so GSHP could be done too. So many choices..................

But you are not buying energy. You are buying wood. A lot of it ends up as fence posts. For example.

I looked at using sheepswool in my barn. Even if i got it free, which i could, or near enough, by the time you get it into a fit state to use, it makes no economic sense at all. Cheaper to buy rockwool or similar.

Im not sure this is helping the OP much though

Thats just how you buy raw timber. I dont make the rules, the forestry industry does. I believe the correct term is a "cord" of timber. It will be "wet" because it just got cut down the day before.

I agree. So how it it done in something like a passiv house, or something to that standard?

Id need to dig it out. You buy it by the cube. As its can be very wet. Min delivery was a full artic load. And its not got to come far. So haulage was minimal. I worked it out a few times. Then found a website that told me much the same. I was amazed. But you have to "process" it yourself. Which of course is where the cost comes if you were to sell it commercially as dried timber. Ive not included, fuel for chainshaw, new chains etc. If you bought logs, rather than roundwood, it was, in round numbers twice as much.

You lost me. Are you working that out on your price? I worked mine out of the raw timber price. Not your ebay price. Clearly it wont recover all the energy. Just more than a woodburner in the living room

Ive never been all that clear on exactly how one should install a new window. If squirty foam isnt what to fill the gaps with, how is it done? Google isnt telling me any different. Lots of pretty pics of cross sections of the window, but not of the whole deal

Works out at 4p kwh. In a gasification boiler. Not some hopeless woodburner in the living room. But that is a full lorry load of roundwood straight off the forest floor. It still needs cutting, stacking and drying. So its only 4p if you exclude the labour element. Which is why im ignoring it for costing purposes.

I was only talking about heating oil. Rather than crude. I did ask in my other post what you would do, if having to make a decision now, and having to live/fund it for the next 25 years. They can, as you say, shuffle the taxes around. But will they, and to what extent? And when. Nobody knows. Which makes it rather hard for said homeowners to "sort themselves out". I willing accept i need to do so, but some clear idea of whats coming would be useful. Policy changes daily, and some of it, we know isnt going to happen. But a decision still needs making. At the moment, ASHP is making no sense whatsoever, especially, as i posted above, not being able to get to current levels of insulation and air tightness on a refurb. Short of knocking it down. My loose plan, subject to daily change, is, keep the oil boiler, fit a massive tank, connect my solar too it too, and get a log gasification boiler for good measure (plenty of cheap wood round here) . If electricity suddenly becomes cost effective, i can easily tack that on. But the cost just to purchase and install probably means that wont make sense for a long time.

Do you really believe electricity will come down by an appreciable amount? And as you say yourself, they will do together. Contradicting your first point. Also, bear in mind that im viewing this from an angle where i know that i cannot achieve insulation and air tightness levels that are achieved on a new build. So my heat demand will still be higher than new build levels. So not ideal for a heat pump potentially. Regarding self generation, thats not remotely viable for an electic based heating system in winter. You are almost totally reliant on the grid unles you can build a ful scale solar farm. And at the mercy of blackouts which, inevitably, are coming. Oil gives you a good level of independance. If we cant get oil, then we will have much bigger problems than heating to worry about.

Ok, we are below the silly peak. But it was shortlived. But still double what we were traditionally paying.

You raise a valid point. But what do you base the decision on? I dont want to find myself in the position of the OP, especially when "support" for bills ceass, as it inevitably must. Oil prices are at an all time high, and its STILL cheaper than the alternative, electricity. Unless you see electricity coming down substantially? I will soon need to make some decisions which i need to live with long term. I cant afford the kind of numbers the OP is seeing, and i dont want to be cold. What to do?

Rather depends where you are. With your location, i agree. Not so much elsewhere in the UK.

Yes, but you have reduced the heat demand. If your reduced demand house had the same gas boiler as your flat, guess what, it would cost less. Drives me bonkers when you keep reading that the ASHP is more efficent, but you need to insulate properly first. Insulating is always a good idea. That how you reduce the heat load. It will be cheaper to heat than a poorly insulated house, regardless of the heat source.

But even at a COP of 3, its still cheaper to use oil. And thats with subsidised electricity prices. Oil if a free market. Once the energy cap is removed the OP might be paying nearer £1000 a month. My current large, 4 bed semi, part of which has completeley uninsulated walls (solid) is using 1800 litres a year for heating and hot water . Has an EPC of D. Pessimistally, oil is £1 a litre. Thats £1800. A year. £150 a month, average. The OP is doing £600 a MONTH. OK, the average is lower, but even so. Am i missing something? Obviously gas is working out similar, but i dont have it, so its not an option.

Beat me to it. But confirming that currently, its the cheapest heating source (leaving wood out of it for the moment) Is a COP of 3 remotely realistic at sub zero temps?

I was pondering this only last weekend as i wonder what to do with the heating in the new (to me) house. These kind of numbers say oil is much cheaper. Never mind when the cap on energy is removed in April. You look to be paying 38p per Kwh. Any idea what efficiency the heat pump is running at? Do you have that data?

Id just push it to the roof. Its corrugated so there will still be airflow over it.

Unlikely to be effective for extended periods. Maybe when i was younger............

Celotex. Cut to fit inbetween the timbers. No too thick, so at least some of the timber vertical face is visible. That way, the timers can half a decent chance of staying dry, and not rotting away. Celotex needs to be a good fit. Gapotape is your friend. If expensive.

Ok, im back. Again After lots of thinking, researching, pricing up etc, i think ive concluded that my cheapest viable and worthwhile option is celotex or similar in the roof, rockwool slabs on the walls covered in steel cladding. Ill put the celotex in between the galvanised purlins, which means smaller pieces thus easier to fit, but will need careful detailing. This leaves airflow over. I intend to use 120mm which means that i can have 20mm covering the bottom of the purlins. The only issue i see with that otherwise clever plan is the steel joists (red oxide) will be inside the thermal envelope in the roof, but outside it on the verticals, where they are in the cavity. Realistically, thermal issues aside, does anyone see a problem with that?

Just to update this, ive concluded there too many issues with filling the cavity, and its only 75mm anyway. Im going to line the inside with rockwall slabs, prob 150mm and panel over with steel cladding. Accepting that i need to do it myself, its not working out more expewnsive than beads on the face of it. Though i will have to extend the wiring out to the relocated sockets, but thats a minor irritation.

Mine had a DPM too. Straight on the mud. Given what you have told us and posted pics of, id bet there no PIR or anything else to be seen. Just drill a hole through it and find out. 10 mins work and you will have the answer. Im going to do the same on my welsh house soon, just as soon as ive sorted out some more pressing issues. That too has a recentish floor with DPC. Again, i bet it doesnt have insulation. The infra red thermometer says floor temp is 8 degrees. If you have evidence of damp in the walls, you seriously need to reconsider using a DPM. I used foamed glass for this reason. If you have gypsum plaster, that needs to go too. It will stay wet forver otherwise. Though some are a bit hardcore, id take a look at the period property forum. Lots of experience there. Not to suggest there isnt here, but this is more focussed on newer stuff. Im a few miles east of Llandovery.