Roger440

It was in a newspaper or two, ill give you that. But it was a direct quote. It proves nothing however, beyond how clueless they are.

I think you may have missed my point, or ascribed a position to me that im not taking. Im not using the argument that because no one else is, we shouldnt. Please re-read my post As for your last paragraph, we wont be able to show that. Because, its essentially impossible with the country the way it is. If we continue on the path proposed, we will have a much lower standard of living. We are already going backwards on that measure.

Far more sensible would be to fit solar at the same time. Then who cares how much energy they use? You do seem to have some ideas that make life worse for people?

Starmer and Miliband both said this prior to the election. It would seem real life has caught up with them. Starmer also said he would turn of the gas supply to domestic properties by 2030. Seems to have changed his tune on that too. At a guess, id imgaine gas will be classed as "green" in years to come.

For that, you have to believe that anything we do will have an impact. It wont. We should be preparing for the inevitable. Id suggest this would be a rather better use of resources. Indeed, im confident in 50 or 100 years, history will prove that. In the meantime, i guess we keep giving away £7.5k to the leeches bleeding the taxpayer dry.

If memory serves, the reason for not doing so, is that they can be used for cooling. And thats not acceptable. Apparantly. Unnecessary energy use.

Good luck with putting up the price of gas. Force millions to be significantly worse off. Deliberately. How do you think that will go for the government of the day? Going to be a hard sell, especially given the price of electricity is artificially pegged as discussed already. Fix that first. Problem is, they wont. So you want to make everyone poorer, in order to achieve something, that cannot be possibly, tangilbly be felt by the consumer? If you believe this, id suggest your moral compass needs recalibrating. Harsh? Maybe, but anyone calling for higher gas prices needs to consider the implications of that.

£500 is just marketing guff. Nobody gets that in reality. Especially anyone on electric heating as there will be no existing central heating system to adapt. Plenty of evidence of that on here. Pie in the sky. Meanwhile, back on planet earth, correct, no one gives a toss. More pressing priorities in life than spunking £1000's of pounds they dont have to fix a problem that isnt going to get fixed. If everyone had a heat pump tommorow it will still make no difference to anything.

Im sufficently comvinced electricity prices can only go up, that everything i do and plan is based around that. The politics and ideolgy in play virtually gurantees it. Accept of course, that things can change.

The reality is housing, housing is a scarce commodity, be it rented or bought. You rent or buy what you can get. Start buggering around pondering the EPC and you will likely be homeless. Someone else will take it. The ONLY resolution to that is a situation where supply exceeds demand. Theres a lot of reasons why that also wouldnt be desirable. Though acedemic, as thats never going to happen.

Agre with that. Someone else suggested leaving it to market forces as its a no brainer to convert resistance to ASHP. Which, on face value is true. Sadly it ignores the fact that a majority of those on resistance heating have absolutely no chance of funding the capital cost. These people get zero help, but we are quite happy to chuck £7500 at what are, often, reasonably well of or weathly people. Logic? Zero. But as i said earlier, the cost of electricity is too high for wholesale swap to ASHP. Unless you are already in the market for a whole new system anyway, going to ASHP is going to cost you more, even if its installed properly. And we all know most are not and hence will cost still more. As others have pointed it out, if the ratio of gas v electricity was 1:2, people wouldnt be able to swap over fast enough. As an aside, my barn office, kitchen etc is on resistance heating. Using it is eye wateringly expensive. I need to sort it out. However, it gets its supply from the house, and with other equipment in the barn, means i dont really have the headroom on the supply for a ASHP. So i will have to do a new oil installation. I did want to put in a three phase supply. Theres one on a pole in my field 50 feet away. But they want £17.5k + vat to do it. And have the benefit of uncapped electricity into the bargain. Again, using electricity just to expensive. Edge case, maybe, but the statement still applies.

I keep saying this. The priciple blocker to ASHP's is that electricity is just too expensive. Sadly its suits powerful people to keep it that way. And so it shall stay that way. All the various wheezes are just trying to work round the core issue.

Interesting. 10 mins on google gives you so many different versions including those that show us at the top. Seems quoting a cost per kWh is complicated? Never mind, doesnt change the fact its too expensive, and its expense prevents switching to it. That point still stands. And it "could" be cheaper, but isnt. By government choice.

Well, i was actually planning on retaining the oil boiler, but, i know how much that costs, Exactly. 1700 litres per year. (thats heating and hot water) So if we assume 70% efficiency, that circa 2428kWh / year. Having just filled my tank this week at 56p, lets use 60p. 60p +5% vat is 63p. 1700 x 63p is £1071 PA. Ive turned the flow temps down, but ive concluded after the cold spell, i can turn it down further. Its clear that NO insulation project beyond the roof (already done) is remotely financially viable, especially if one uses the 15 year payback rule as per building regs. Im currently leaning towards your idea. Especially as doing it properly, and involving building control brings a number of additional costs down on me, further excarbating its unviability. I will, however, fit triple glazed windows for comfort and weather proofing reasons, and install UFH in the existing uninsulated floor. The windows in particular should yield a useful improvement as theres quite a lot of them. Adding an ASHP, even if the running costs were similar, still costs me the capex for no tangible improvment of any sort. Yes, oil prices can go up as well as down, but electricity is a one way bet, up.

For all the suggestions, it still comes back to the fact that our electricity costs are way to high. Unlike most of europe, or the USA. Its always going to be an uphill struggle to convert users to a more expensive energy source. We all know the main reason why, ie the pegged price. But that isnt going to change. Primarily related to reasons in my post above. Money. Being in wales, when my income drops far enough, i can sign up to the scheme for £45k of work to insulate and install ASHP all at the taxpayers expense. Its more cost effective to cease work, and cease paying tax, which is precisely what i will do. Its a mad world. Im sure england will follow with some similar madcap idea. My best advice is wait it out until it gets more generous. As it must.

Id not make that assumption. The new crowd are just as bad as the old crowd. Companies will lobby whoever is in power, that may or may not include donations or other incentives. Either way, what gravelld says is essentially correct. There no room for facts. Only money

And near enough (as can be achieved) government proof. And cheaper. Well so long as i dont run the genny outside of power cuts. Sadly seen a lot of use lately. I think 7 since november. Including one over 48 hours. And you wonder why i posted what i did?

Ahh, thousands more to be spent on "consultants". Another band wagon for them to jump on. Or, dont fit any outside lighting. Wait until everyone has lost interest, fit it later. Whos going to know or care? Even if they do, whats the likely enforcement. Lighting is penuts, so could be removed if it had to be.

I believe so, because such uses are commercial operations. Its the same for farmers now. You can use red diesel on your farm, but if you do some haulage work for someone else, you have to switch to white. My diesel tank is my tractor (and digger) food. Thus defeating the whole idea of red diesel, but, hey, politicians, so par for the course. If you follow the letter of the regs, you are supposed to drain the tanks, change the filters and flush through the lines if you switch from red to white. All whilst glossing over that even if you do that, you will still get a postive result for red. And a fine to go with it.

Hmmm, controversial. I like the idea though as it solves so many problems. But, going to cost a ton in energy, depending on the exact construction. I have to say, id not actually considered that option on my house. 🤔

Thats not quite right is it. The EV legislation effectively mandates that technology. Whilst there might not be a truly viable alternative right now, we have ruled out any future innovations if/when they occur. Still no surprise, politicians were involved.

Agree with that in principle However, if you let market economics take over, it will stall. Electricity is too expensive. And the real issue is, it its going to get a lot more expensive, further disincentivising switching. Worth remembering that many here are getting good results. Out in the rest of the world however, as posted by the OP, thats not the reality for many. Its the running costs, not the installation that puts off people i know. Almost everyone i know with an ASHP is saying its more expensive than the gas or oil it replaced. And of course, they tell people. Whilst theres a couple of things going on, for the bulk of installations, if it costs a ton to run, tough. Your problem. Even if, by some miracle, installation improved from tommorow, the results so far will take many years to be erased from public perception. Perception IS reality. The decomissioning the gas network is interesting. Theres a government report knocking about that examines how this could work and the costs involved. It was eye watering numbers. And i dont recall it covering off the commercial aspect for what is a private supply industry.

Too hard. I have a 1200 litre red diesel tank on site. That should keep the genny running a while.

No need. Oil boiler plus back up genny. Problem fixed.

Insanity Im in a stone cottage with an extension, the EPC is an E, and its costing £1700 a year in oil at 20 degrees all day and 16 overnight. MCS? Nothing to add beyond what we all know.