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Jenki

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 Since the last blog, a lot has happened in a relatively short time. The last blog was Stage 1 of the Amenity block, needing cladding and the roof, and as I'm sat here early in the morning , with the wind constantly blowing 20MPH, 2mm rain p/h. and a toasty 8 deg.  inside the static, which is our home  now - yey. The Cabins are complete.  A lot of work and a move thrown in to the mix since the middle of August.

 

The cabins are stick built on site, under the supervision of Building control, this means that the insulation and detailing falls within the small building regulations and thus U values are quite tight.  The positive is that they will be relatively cheap to heat year round.  The downside was we spent a lot more on insulation.

 

The process was the same as the amenity block, the foundation slab was cast, and the floor insulation (120mm PIR) was sat on top of this and a radon barrier with floating chipboard on top. 6inch walls with glass wool insulation.

Due to the extreme cost variations and difficulty getting hold of Frame therm 32, the walls were filled with a mixture of Frame therm 32 & 40, I managed to get some at £18/ roll in Bradford and dragged it up with me, collecting some over ordered frame therm40, from Stirling on the way (thanks Market place). The bottom line was that I needed to add 25mm PIR inside to get the 0.21U required.  The Roof was 120mm fibre glass coated PIR, with Firestone rubber bonded direct.

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The original plans was to clad the pods in Black Metal, but after some thoughts through BH (Salt in the air etc, we changed to Scottish Larch.  We had 300, 4.8M lengths delivered from Huntly area. Mandy spent around 2 weeks solid staining these both sides and edges black.  she was amazing, this was not an easy task. I think I painted 3/4 of 1 plank before I was off doing something else.   The Orange look would have been too harsh, so we decided to stain them , and hopefully as the Larch ages and the stain fades they will eventually take on the natural look of Larch.

 

 

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Another tweak to the design was to cut the corner off the bathroom. allowing for 2 double beds, thinking that as our customers will in the main be only staying for a day or two, the bed was more important than sitting areas.

 

My biggest concern was heating and hot water.  I've asked on here before, and was thinking of using a 300l UVC, but was never happy this would supply enough hot water for two cabins and up to 10 people. - so either the expense of a Heat pump or direct immersion.

I had laid 20mm MDPE pipe x 2 to each cabin from the amenity block. for the H&C supply.

 

We bit the bullet and decided to supply the hot water via 2 off  Cointra CPA11 open flue caravan heaters (LPG), I was concerned if the temperature would be ok, especially as the water travels between 3 & 6M underground .

This was compounded further, later on,  as we started having problems with the same heater in out static. Low temperature HW and problems when the wind picked up over 15MPH.

 

Too late to worry, money was spent and It was suck it and see.  Fitting the Open Flue heaters in the Amenity block created another issue, so we have ended up with a little extension on the side of  amenity block that houses the two heater, basically its like they are outside, but inside.

I have insulated them, but I will have to add a small heater with PID control (Job to do) to ensure the water does not freeze inside the boilers.

For the hot water I fed 10mm PB pipe inside the MDPE pipe and hope the flow rates and temperature would work.... (I thought about asking on here, but sometimes you have to bite the bullet and see)

 

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We have installed UPVC DG windows, and I created MDF reveal liners, this allowed for the plaster boards to be fitted flush to the liners, with face mouldings to finish.  I taped and jointed the PB, but to be honest it was a pain, due to the number of butt joints,  on a couple of occasions I nearly went and bought some Multi finish.  In general were happy with the finish,  but it has confirmed that this WONT be happening on the house build. 

Mandy wanted a feature wall (interior design is where I stop), and the en-suite seemed to be a good place for this.  We had just enough Larch left over, so Mandy cut and ripped this down, sanded one face and painted in various contrasting (I think that is what she said) colours.  I helped a little with the first row or two install,  as it does have some 22.55deg bevels, then I was back to to the other cabin sanding and filling.

 

Due to the success of the Air to Air HP in the static, we decided to install the same in the cabins, this way we know the heat all year round will work. As this was a little after thought - external cladding was complete, I had to be creative with the internal pipe run, I created a box / shelf which can be seen in the photos below, this now acts as a cup holder with some cup hooks.

 

The Bathrooms were clad with shower wall cladding. a Boxed in WC allows for all the utilities to enter and also houses the Wireless access point, which is powered POE. from the amenity block.IMG_20221121_170622.thumb.jpg.1e7dff66c363fb50182692454fd06270.jpg  bath03.thumb.jpg.16c6af670c776ad3607782fd2645916b.jpg

 

Once the bathrooms were fitted, it was time to see if the HW works.   Its a resounding yes.  we had -4deg (This is  how I know I need to stop the boilers freezing). but once I'd managed to thaw the boiler out, we were getting 40Deg in the cabins.  The showers are not power showers, but they work really well, better than an electric shower.  and heat up time is around 35 - 40 sec.  The boilers have worked in 30MPH winds, so the issues with our static are just that and I'm still exploring the why.

As we stand today 1 cabin is ready to let, and we are waiting delivery of 2 beds for the other cabin.

 

200m of livestock fencing in the new year will see this side of the project complete.

 

 

 

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Great progress.

 

Just a thought on furniture (before you buy the stuff for cabin #2)  Would it not make more sense for most families to have a double bed and a pair of bunk beds?  I would not have wanted to share a double with my sister even as young children!!!!!!

 

 

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3 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Great progress.

 

Just a thought on furniture (before you buy the stuff for cabin #2)  Would it not make more sense for most families to have a double bed and a pair of bunk beds?  I would not have wanted to share a double with my sister even as young children!!!!!!

 

 

Due to height constraints (planning)  head height isn't great at the back wall. so two double beds, and the sofa is a sofa bed.

 

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On 30/12/2022 at 18:43, Iceverge said:

Brill. 

 

What airtightness and ventilation strategy did you opt for?

Airtightness was plastic vapour barrier on face of studs, tapped & sealed to the slab  / ceiling. I tapped and sealed the PIR board as well.

Ventilation was compromised by cost and Building control.  - for the shower we just went for a standard extract fan and BC are still un decided if we need a big extractor for the Kitchenette. 

I've sent them the details of the Air to Air heating hoping that they will accept the de humidifying function. But obviously this is not extracting.  Over spent on everything, opting for the Air to Air heating will allow for affordable year round use, paying for heat recovery ventilation  fans was a bridge too far...

 

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On 30/12/2022 at 08:27, ProDave said:

Would it not make more sense for most families to have a double bed and a pair of bunk beds? 

We have had a re-think on this, and have purchased two set of bunks - your comments confirmed our worries.  so both will now have a double, a set of bunks and Sofa bed.👍 

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On 03/01/2023 at 09:07, Jenki said:

opting for the Air to Air heating

 

Looks similar to this one. Not many for sale online in Ireland vs the UK and retailers are uninterested in selling direct here in my experience. 

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Are you satisfied with it re noise and running cost? 

 

How does it perform at temps below 0? 

 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, Iceverge said:

 

Looks similar to this one. Not many for sale online in Ireland vs the UK and retailers are uninterested in selling direct here in my experience. 

image.thumb.png.23b6bcbed23d2d58458bf0b4d507f362.png

 

Are you satisfied with it re noise and running cost? 

 

How does it perform at temps below 0? 

 

 

 

It's early days for the cabins so no cost feedback. Noise wise no issue really. 

The one installed in the caravan is a cheaper version, we've had a few days below 0. I think the worst has been -4 with -7 wind chill. And it still performed well. Although it did go into defrost mode more often.

Cost wise on the cold days it way averaging  0.8 kw/h.

For 6 days in Jan it's used 56Kwh.

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10 hours ago, Jenki said:

Cost wise on the cold days it way averaging  0.8 kw/h.

For 6 days in Jan it's used 56Kwh.

 

Presumably the caravan has minimal insulation compared to the cabins so they should be even better. I hope everyone else living on site in a caravan is aware of the brilliance of A2A.

 

Right now we've got some early morning sun producing around 1kW from our 3.2kW PV array and there's still a couple of hundred Watts to spare while our two A2A units are busy warming the outbuilding from 16oC overnight setback up to 19oC. What other type of heating system could manage this? I never thought it'd be practical to use a modest amount of PV to power space heating - especially not in the first week of January - but I'm glad that I've been proved wrong.

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5 hours ago, Radian said:

I never thought it'd be practical to use a modest amount of PV to power space heating - especially not in the first week of January - but I'm glad that I've been proved wrong.

Shhh, keep that quiet or the trolls be be along telling you how wrong you are.

 

You going to start heating your water with an EAHP.

May be worth looking into as you can heat the house with A2A, at CoP 4, then heat the water with EX at CoP 3.

If you remember the old story about the sound cancellation machine by Arthur C Clarke in Tales of the White Hart, you will know what happens.

Edited by SteamyTea
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2 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

If you remember the old story about the sound cancellation machine by Arthur C Clarke in Tales of the White Hart, you will know what happens.

Ah, the "Fenton Silencer" - a true scandal-de mortuis nil nisi bonum

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23 hours ago, Radian said:

 

Presumably the caravan has minimal insulation compared to the cabins so they should be even better.

Caravan is 30mm polystyrene in the walls. so poor when it was 0 outside, caravan would drop to 6 with no heat. - the joys of thermals and bed socks prevail.😂

 

The heat up time for the cabins is quick, and the A2A in the cabins have separate modes - so it does do a heat only cycle - thus turns off when satisfied and comes back on  again when needed , whereas  the one installed in the caravan has a set point that it try's to maintain, so will cool as well. 

 

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17 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

You going to start heating your water with an EAHP.

May be worth looking into as you can heat the house with A2A, at CoP 4, then heat the water with EX at CoP 3.

I'm still researching the best "affordable" option for our house build. and do like the idea. but definitely want UFH.   My system will be DIY, and EAHP seem to be too expensive. need to do more research on this.  

list of to do's is:

compare costs of DIY  MVHR system  with ASHP, UVC buffer tank / UFH .  Vs EAHP coupled possibly with Pool ASHP for UFH - is this an option

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Jenki said:

coupled possibly with Pool ASHP for UFH - is this an option

Pool ASHP's are not a good choice for UFH.  I think few have inverter drive (they are built to heat what is in affect a very big buffer tank) and many won't work at Scottish winter temperatures.

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2 minutes ago, Jenki said:

EAHP seem to be too expensive

Disregarding my flippant remarks about additive CoP.

Space heating and DHW are different things. They operate at different temperatures and at different times if the day.

You will almost certainly be adding forced ventilation if some sort.

I have never looked at the numbers as they are hard to come by, but I often think that even with MVHR at a more realistic recover rate if 80% over the year, the other 20% may be enough to heat most of the DHW.

 

What we need is output energy sensors on all heating heating systems, then the data would be easy to analyse.

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17 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

What we need is output energy sensors on all heating heating systems, then the data would be easy to analyse.

maybe for another topic, but I'm thinking of adding DS18B20 sensors into my slab prior to pour, and was thinking it might be good to put some into the core of the ICF - any thoughts on this. 

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7 minutes ago, Jenki said:

any thoughts on this. 

You need to fit a mass flow sensor on the pipework.

This is generally the bit that is missing.

Temperature sensing is cheap and easy, £200 of DS18B20s strategically placed all over the place will give you loads of useful data.

You can add extra 1wire GPIOs to a Raspberry Pi Zero W to save overloading one pin and build in redundancy that way, modify the /boot/config.txt file.

dtoverlay=w1-gpio,gpiopin=x

Where x is the extra GPIO pins.

You can do similar with i2c.

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On 07/01/2023 at 10:14, Jenki said:

maybe for another topic, but I'm thinking of adding DS18B20 sensors into my slab prior to pour, and was thinking it might be good to put some into the core of the ICF - any thoughts on this. 

You get hot spots from adjacency to UFH runs, solar gain, etc.  What you really need is a slab average.  If you have wet UFH you might consider what I do.  I run my circulation pump for 8 mins every hour.  I initially did this to help to redistribute heat around the rooms, but I also realised that the return flow temp is a good remote sensor of average slab temp, and so I use the average of my zone returns.

Edited by TerryE
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