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Act III - Buying the Plot, Wayleaves and Servitudes


AliMcLeod

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It’s May 2015 and around 4 months since we first saw the plot and 3 months since we decided not to buy it. There were various reasons for this:

 

  • The was a train line running along the rear of the plot, serving the local power station
  • There was a BP pipeline running through the border of our plot, imposing a 3.5 meter no build zone on our plot
  • We’d never done anything like this before. We were not self-builders. Buying a plot was for people on Grand Designs or Building the Dream, not people like us who bought a house, moved our furniture into it and painted a few walls. The extent of our renovation experience was replacing a lean-to sun-room with a conservatory – that room did extend out beyond the original floor space, so required planning permission, but we had very little involvement in the whole process. It did not involve a 3 foot high pressure oil and gas pipeline. And I was not a trainspotter.

 

This sit map shows Plots 11 and 12.

 

pipeline.PNG.a188c34a209baee1935988330ee85e06.PNG

 

Ours is Plot 12.

 

SitePlan28113.thumb.jpg.1d296723471f7fef33ff4219ad294a66.jpg

 

Whilst the existence of the pipeline and no-build zone was an obvious inconvenience, we’d spoken to the builder aligned to the plot, and because we had planning permission and because we were assured that good progress was being made on getting the foundation design approved by the pipeline owner, we were comforted in that respect. We trusted what we were told, But with the benefit of hindsight, that trust was misplaced.

 

However, from my hazy recollection of those discussions 2 years ago, it was actually the existence of the train line that was the ultimate decider in us not purchasing the plot at that time.  As far as we could ascertain, only 4 trains ran per week, but they were long, trundly, noisy trains, with carriages filled with coal, and this did not really appeal to us.


So, we walked away.

 

But, 3 months later, we were back looking at the plot. We’d spent those intervening 3 months looking at other houses for sale (we’d still not yet put our own home on the market) but couldn’t find somewhere we both loved. Perhaps critically, we revisited the plot one day and started speaking to the lovely couple who were building the house on the plot to the west of ours. They had previous experience of self-building, at varying levels of involvement, from instructing a main contractor through the project managing and arranging all the sub-contractors themselves.

 

We met with them a couple of times thereafter, and it’s fair to say that they allayed many of the concerns we had, particularly the minimal impact the railway line was having on their lives, although at that time, their build was still in progress and they were living in a caravan on-site.

 

I can’t remember exactly when we made a decision to buy the plot, but things moved fast once we did. We agreed to meet the builder on-site, and within a week we’d put in a note of interest on the plot and put down a small deposit to have it removed from the market. We also put our own home on the market at the same time (to release capital), and changed our own house search to find a temporary place to live whilst the build was to take place.

 

It took nearly 3 more months to conclude the purchase of the plot. It was during this time that we first heard the phrases Wayleave Agreement and Deed of Servitude from our solicitor.  Wayleaves have been discussed on this board before, so I won’t go into details, but in our case, it effectively gives the pipeline owner the right to access the ground above and around the pipeline. The Deed of Servitude is the legal document in which these rights are documented. Interestingly (and this will be the subject to future posts) it details the rights and responsibilities of both the pipe owner and plot owner with regards to the pipeline. We finally legally owned the plot in the middle August 2015.

 

More time than really should have been necessary was spent on getting a decision as to whether we could actually place a fence on the boundary of our plot (which was shown to be directly above the pipeline), but we (and the owner of the plot to the east of us) had discussions with the pipeline owners Wayleave team and finally got confirmation that there would be no issue here.

 

During these discussions we also got more information about the positioning of the pipeline in relation to the plot. This side elevation shows the run of the pipeline underground (though we've since organised a significant soil shift since this was created):

 

pipe-side-elevation.thumb.PNG.60ea17004fda5a368ba03af94a2920b7.PNG

 

This drawing also showed the results of the discussions that had already taken place regarding the foundations for the approved house. The depth of the foundation, we were told, was to ensure that no load was put onto the pipeline. We had also met with the  architect who designed the house, and he explained that so long as there was a 45 degree angle between the bottom of the foundations and the bottom of the pipeline, then the pipe owners were happy.

 

initial-foundation-draft.PNG.9d3b7b74420484763ee68d85426e96b5.PNG

 

We never knew at the time, but the foundation design is something that caused (and is still causing) much angst in our build process.

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I love the "Servitudes" :D. Are the Vikings coming back to catch us?

Edited by Ferdinand
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5 metre deep trench foundations. That's not for the faint hearted.  I assume it will be sheet steel piled to retain the soil then concrete poured, though I have a feeling you will be telling us all the details in the future.

 

Using the "45 degree rule" and allowing for the fact you are building 3 metres or more from the pipe, you can probably reasonably reduce that depth to a more manageable 3 metres with agreement from the pipeline owner?

 

@Ferdinand Deed of Servitude is just one of those Scottish legal terms one gets used to.

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Good time to buy this; coal is being phased out by 2025.

 

Though you could be on the HS6 route :-) .

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@ProDave Those were the initial founds - the latest founds aren't quite 5 meters - we've removed around 2000 tonnes of soil across our plot and the one next to us. However,   the foundation design that was approved by the pipe owner is actually more onerous (and expensive)  than the one  you see here, as they involved steelwork and this kind of foundation (strip foundation?):

 

 

58dab23f5dedd_Screenshot2017-03-2819_57_19.thumb.png.9c82e278e51a034ead123965973915f5.png

 

We weren't involved in the technicalities of the early plans (left that to the builder) but sheet piling was not part of the original design. However, adding sheet piling was later suggested after the plot next to ours started their dig and the sand (which the boring report identified) started giving away under the pipeline. But, the sheet piling introduced £10Ks of additional costs, although introducing sheet piling (and keeping it in place) would have meant we'd be able to reduce the trench depth and therefore concrete costs. 

 

So, your second sentence about reducing the depth is exactly where we're at now. But just because we were told that the 45 degree angle and no load on the pipeline was all we needed, it does not mean that the pipeline owner agreed . Our responsibility with regards to the pipeline (as per the servitude) is not to damage it/put load onto it. But, unbeknown to us at the time (the SE was engaged via the builder, not sub-contracted by us), it seems the foundation design that was finally approved (require for planning consent) was effectively dictated to our SE by the pipeline owners SE, and everyone expected us to pick up the bill. 

 

The pipeline is the same one that forced the moving of T In The Park, so we're not talking some local farmer here...

 

It'll definitely be the subject of future posts.

 

@FerdinandThe coal station has already closed, so no more coal trains - just the occasional train to help with the decommissioning and a tourist steam train every couple of months. I'm not too concerned about HS6. I suspect funding will stop after HS2 :D

Edited by AliMcLeod
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I'm glad you're writing this Ali, good for the soul I expect?

Also, puts into perspective my reticence to climb below the floor and make the branch connection I need to my 3 1/2 inch cast iron soil pipe!

Living in Maryhill, Glasgow for many years, I've seen the results of a 36" water main rupture...think hole big enough for a double deck bus to fall into...*your* pipe is similar at 1m. Not sure about pressure differences between water and gas but guessing gas is higher? Maybe @JSHarris would know.

Maybe just as well the company are taking a conservative view of pipe security?

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I think if i was in your shoes, i think i would be squaring off the other half of the basement as using space (larger gym?).... and looking at a raft foundation tied into ICF for the retaining walls. 

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@TennentslagerYes, the pipe owners are quite correct to ensure its not put at risk. Its quite important to the energy supply in Central Scotland. Hint: Grangemouth is over the other side of the river from our plot.

 

@Alexphd1 When I asked the builder about using that space, he quoted a additional figure of around £40-50K due to the extra tanking etc requirements. As for raft foundations/ICF, one of the things I want to ask the experts on this forum is what other foundation options might be possible, although I realise no-one will be able to advise due to the. Our structural engineer has said the option he put forward is the optimal one for the site with the pipeline.

Edited by AliMcLeod
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@AliMcLeod

 

I am not *totally* convinced by that 40-50k extra cost of the extra basement, but I am not well placed to critique it since I have never built one. However, I make it about 5% larger than the double garage, at 38sqm or so.

 

All the structural work is there, and you would have access from above, so it should be down to spoil disposal, drainage (and the system is in for the garage), waterproofing, finish, access and fitout. One option would be to leave it as an empty ventilated void without fitout but with the basic structure in just in case for potential later. I am not convinced by £1250 per sqm for that extra work; others may know for real.

 

And there is all the stuff around builder relationships, and also how you are doing your insulation etc on the whole fabric, and how much of it, and how an extra basement room would change that. 

 

Edited by Ferdinand
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@Ferdinand I thought that sounded expensive too, but I was in no position to argue an alternative. There would be the need to do a soil-shift there (the current plan is to build the trench around that area), and additional tanking, and I think it also changed the foundation design with respect to the pipeline. I did ask about leaving it as a ventilated void, but that was still the majority of the costs.

 

Once I get to posting our final (well, most current) foundations, i'll be able to ask such specific questions. It is another area where I'd love some input.

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@AliMcLeod, the one to talk to about basement construction is @Bitpipe.  I know he spend a very long time looking at options and has recently moved into his completed house.

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Yes, we have a TF house that's roughly square (11.5m x 10.5m) and decided to have a full basement under the house which acts as the foundations. Planning didn't blink so we got an additional 107m2 internal floor area, nearly 50% extra on the above ground element, which in the SE is worth quite a bit.

 

Architect was very wary (had no experience) but it was no problem to build and is one of the best features of the house. All the plant is down there in a dedicated room and we have four large (4mx5m) rooms each with light well for leisure use. Nice bright spaces, really pleased we went with it.

 

Cost wise, structure was £120k but that included the demo, clearance and plot services, so probably closer to £100k just for the basement - you could probably subtract a good chunk from that had we used a traditional raft slab.

 

Fit out was about another £15k, kind of got lost in the overall electrics / plastering / joinery / flooring budget. Aside from plant, there are no wet services and no heating required (we have 300mm insulation under the slab and 200mm outside the walls.

 

We used warrantied waterproof concrete (Sika) and no other internal tanking or external membrane as the water table is fairly low (6m). I see that you're near water so the situation may be different.

 

There are 3 recognised forms of waterproofing  - best practice is to use two but we got by with one (B).

 

A is external membrane  - needs very careful application and extreme care on backfilling, otherwise it can be compromised

B is waterproof concrete - we used a Sika system of admix and waterbars in the joins - was all recorded, inspected and signed off on site by a Sika rep who then issued the warranty.

C is internal membrane - applied to the internal walls and drains to a sump with a submerged pump (or two for redundancy). Quite common in London basements but has an ongoing maintenance cost wrt the pump.

 

About 30% of basement cost is muck away and a tight site with poor access will increase costs further. A good chunk of the remaining build cost is formwork labour (took 2-3 days to prep for each pour) so complicate designs will cost more to form, the actual concrete is not that significant a cost.

 

We were lucky with our design, location and conditions.

 

Many 'basement specialists' are focused on the conversion market (London dominant) so are not suitable for a new build. There are specialists (Glatthar) who are high quality but fairly expensive. Most competent ground workers can build a decent basement, especially if they sub out the concrete works to an experienced team who can work with a warrantied product. These people build carparks and the like all day long so this is small beer. You could even chance an experienced general builder if they use a warrantied waterproofing product.

 

 

  • Like 2
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@AliMcLeod we appear to be learning the same lessons are yourself :(

 

Our structural engineer is suggesting trench foundations at varying depths up to 3m on our plot not far from Linlthgow. Costings for this have come at a bit of a shock!!

 

We have also been blighted by the dreaded Deed of Servitude which has caused some headaches. 

 

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@Rossek9 Do you have a complicated plot? And what is the requirement for the servitude? Is it a pipeline too, or overhead cables? Or something else?

 

Linlithgow is not far from us, In fact, a few weeks ago, we were so fed up with the complexity of our current plot that we actually looked at another (much simpler) plot out that way. We thought about sitting on the current one until we both had more time to dedicate to it. It sold before we even had a chance to investigate further though.

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1 hour ago, AliMcLeod said:

@Rossek9 Do you have a complicated plot? And what is the requirement for the servitude? Is it a pipeline too, or overhead cables? Or something else?

 

Linlithgow is not far from us, In fact, a few weeks ago, we were so fed up with the complexity of our current plot that we actually looked at another (much simpler) plot out that way. We thought about sitting on the current one until we both had more time to dedicate to it. It sold before we even had a chance to investigate further though.

 

The servitude is to allow the running of services through a part of our plot if required under emergency use. This caused us to rethink our house designbut have managed to come up with something that still meets our requirements. It's a good job I'm interested in cars are our driveway is going to be able to fit around 8/10 on it!!!!

 

The plot is actually not very complicated as all services are either on site apart from water although this is very close. The only issues we are having is that it's made up ground and thus the extra depth to the foundations.....which in turn costs us ££££.

 

It may well have been our plot you looked at as we just completed around a month ago on it.....after 1 year of planning. Did the plot you were looking at have another house being built next door at the time you looked at it?

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@Rossek9 It sounds like a different plot - the one we viewed was in the last couple of weeks and was near Newton.

 

Have you had a good read of your servitude? Ours has a clause that stipulates that if the existence of the pipeline causes loss of development value on the site, then we can either ask for it to be moved, or receive compensation for that loss of development value. We're only just starting on that journey...

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1 minute ago, AliMcLeod said:

Have you had a good read of your servitude? Ours has a clause that stipulates that if the existence of the pipeline causes loss of development value on the site, then we can either ask for it to be moved, or receive compensation for that loss of development value. We're only just starting on that journey...

I wonder if that might at least be a route to pay for the expensive deep foundations needed?

 

There is an interesting one near me.

 

My neighbours garden has the old Dounereay 200KV overhead line running over it on a temporary wayleave. Her son bought half her garden and built a new house.  Last year he served them the 1 years notice to remove the line.  It hasn't gone yet. I expect they are "negotiating"

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@ProDave That's the path we're on. I'd ideally rather work with the pipeline owner than serve the notice (6 months in our case) so I'm trying to determine what the existence of pipeline is costing us in development value. To do that, I ideally get additional sets of foundation drawings. I have the ones that were previously approved by the pipeline owner, but those are onerous expensive to implement, so i'd like to get drawings that cover our responsibilities (solid foundations for our house, no load on pipeline) and drawings for the house on the plot in a mythical no-pipeline world. I'd then need to get prices based on the same.

 

But, we're having great difficulty in getting our structural engineer to engage, and even getting builders to quote is proving difficult.


Can anyone recommend a good SE in the Fife area?

Edited by AliMcLeod
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33 minutes ago, AliMcLeod said:

@ProDave That's the path we're on. I'd ideally rather work with the pipeline owner than serve the notice (6 months in our case) so I'm trying to determine what the existence of pipeline is costing us in development value. To do that, I ideally get additional sets of foundation drawings. I have the ones that were previously approved by the pipeline owner, but those are onerous expensive to implement, so i'd like to get drawings that cover our responsibilities (solid foundations for our house, no load on pipeline) and drawings for the house on the plot in a mythical no-pipeline world. I'd then need to get prices based on the same.

 

 

Having written the original Wayleave thread after our experience, I would be interested in the situation under Scottish Law. Is there a similar process where they can apply for a "compulsory" wayleave, for example?

 

Best of luck.

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@ProDave This PDF gives some background:

 

https://www.lawscot.org.uk/media/583299/prop-servitudes-without-benefited-property-law-society-of-scotland.pdf

 

If you want some bedtime reading, have a search for William Rennie v BP. In particular, this ruling:

 

http://www.cnarb.com/Item/3881.aspx

 

In that case, planning was declined, which is not the case with us. However, prevention of development clause also kicks in if there is "conditional grant of planning permission" which is what we have. 

 

There's also quite a few newspaper articles about the legal fight after T-in-the-Park was forced to move.

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8 hours ago, AliMcLeod said:

@Rossek9 It sounds like a different plot - the one we viewed was in the last couple of weeks and was near Newton.

 

Have you had a good read of your servitude? Ours has a clause that stipulates that if the existence of the pipeline causes loss of development value on the site, then we can either ask for it to be moved, or receive compensation for that loss of development value. We're only just starting on that journey...

 

No our plot is not one of the ones at Newton. Not far away however.


Yes I've read our servitude and unfortunately there really isn't anything we can do to be able to build on the part of the land served by the servitude, unless we were to offer a cash incentive to get them removed.......which I'm not willing to do.

 

What companies have you discussed the foundations with? I'm trying to get quotes together for ours but as you have discovered most builders are reluctant to take on foundations at the depths specified.

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