nexgen graphene heating panels

[scottishjohn]

https://eaglerenewablesukltd.com/nexgen-heating

 any body looked at these for using your PV work on 24v .

 

[ProDave]

Just a form of electric resistance heating that can be used as UFH.  Nothing special. but I would guess probably expensive.

[scottishjohn]

could be a good solution for off grid with  loads of PV and battery storage + suspended wood floors etc .

will be very controllable ,quick to change temp + simple to install ,no plant room required

I will send them an email and find out costs just out of  interest and see how it compares in initial costs to ashp  wet system

[Jeremy Harris]

It's no different, functionally, to the myriad of other electric resistance heating systems available as far as I can see.  I installed electric underfloor heating in the bathroom of our old house around 15 years ago now, it was cheap, relatively easy to install (just sat in the time adhesive bed) and reliable. 

[scottishjohn]

If we believe the hype then graphene is far more efficient  then any other type of heating film 

 

will see what they have to say  .

what dif in price between suspended floor and big thick slab  and insulated raft?

could be just strip foundations then ?

[jack]

21 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

If we believe the hype then graphene is far more efficient  then any other type of heating film 

 

The efficiency claims are pure hype. All electrical heating is practically 100% efficient. 

 

The main advantage this product has is that it's very thin (0.5 mm).

[ProDave]

That old chestnut of "my electric heater is more efficient than yours"  is usually utter BS.  Resistance electric heating is all 100% efficient, every watt of electricity you put into it converts to 1 watt of heat *   I don't know how Trading Standards let advertisers get away with claims like that, but plenty do including F*****r who peddle their range of heaters as a more efficient replacement for old electric heaters, and seem to sell a lot of them on that claim.

 

* not quite true heaters with electronic controls will consume some power for those controls, but chances are most if that will end up as heat anyway as well. 

[jack]

53 minutes ago, ProDave said:

I don't know how Trading Standards let advertisers get away with claims like that, but plenty do including F*****r who peddle their range of heaters as a more efficient replacement for old electric heaters, and seem to sell a lot of them on that claim.

 

IR panel manufacturers claim their products are more efficient because of how they heat. Instead of heating an entire room, you heat just the surfaces in the area where you actually need the heat. They aren't saying that their products are more efficient in the sense of more energy out per watt.

 

I'm not saying I agree with this.

[Ed Davies]

1 minute ago, jack said:

IR panel manufacturers claim their products are more efficient because of how they heat.

 

Indeed, that's at least a plausible claim. But in this particular case these NexGen heaters are designed to be under the floor or in the wall so I can't see how they can affect the radiation from the surface - it'll just radiate, convect and conduct as it would with any other heater as a function of its temperature.

[ProDave]

Okay I accept that for a true IR heater.  the sort of things used a lot in churches to save heating the whole massive leaky building, instead shine some heat on the parishioners.

 

But this is a graphite "panel" that you put under the floor or behind the plasterboard on a wall.  Please someone explain to me how this is ANY different to ANY form or resistive electric heating placed under the floor.  If this claims to be radiant heat, then so is my under floor heating?

[jack]

1 minute ago, Ed Davies said:

Indeed, that's at least a plausible claim. But in this particular case these NexGen heaters are designed to be under the floor or in the wall so I can't see how they can affect the radiation from the surface - it'll just radiate, convect and conduct as it would with any other heater as a function of its temperature.

 

1 minute ago, ProDave said:

But this is a graphite "panel" that you put under the floor or behind the plasterboard on a wall.  Please someone explain to me how this is ANY different to ANY form or resistive electric heating placed under the floor.  If this claims to be radiant heat, then so is my under floor heating?

 

I was talking only about IR heaters relative to, eg, fan heaters. As I said above, other than how thin it is, I can't see any advantage of this NexGen product over, eg, ordinary electric UFH mats.

[Ed Davies]

Just now, jack said:

I was talking only about IR heaters relative to, eg, fan heaters.

 

Yep, we're furiously agreeing. I and @ProDave are just clarifying why that argument wouldn't apply to these NexGen heaters.

[scottishjohn]

spoke to a guy 

and after some grilling  he told me not SAPS approved til later this year for new builds 

 

[Temp]

Their web site says..

 

These very thin heating foils are unobtrusive and can be installed easily in the floor, wall or ceilings, with no electrical expertise required.

 

If they are installed under or behind anything I believe the radiant properties will depend on what's covering the heating foil NOT the foil itself.

 

So unless you install them bare I don't think they have any heating advantage over conventional electric UFH.

 

[jack]

I think the other thing is that they run on 24V so you don't need an electrician to install them.

[Simplysimon]

13 hours ago, ProDave said:

That old chestnut of "my electric heater is more efficient than yours"  is usually utter BS.  Resistance electric heating is all 100% efficient, every watt of electricity you put into it converts to 1 watt of heat *   I don't know how Trading Standards let advertisers get away with claims like that, but plenty do including F*****r who peddle their range of heaters as a more efficient replacement for old electric heaters, and seem to sell a lot of them on that claim. 

 not any more they don't ?

 

Your complaint–Fischer FutureThankyou for your patience in what we acknowledge has been a lengthy investigation. We received a considerable amount of evidence from Fischer Future in support of the claims in the ad. Our assessment of the evidence raised a number of concerns and Fischer Future has agreed to remove the comparative elements of the ad (claims comparingFischer heaters and conventional storage heaters). We consider that this will resolve the complaint without referring the matter to the ASA Council, and will consequently be closing our file.In a formal investigation, if the ASA Council decides that an ad is in breach of the Code, the advertisers are told to withdraw or amend it. Because Fischer has already assured us that the advertising you complained about will be amended, we consider there is little to be gained from continuing with a formal investigation, which would achieve that same outcome.Although we will not publish full details of your complaint on our website, www.asa.org.uk, basic information including the advertisers' name and where the ad appeared will appear on Wednesday 30thJanuary.

[Clive Osborne]

Hi Eagle Remewables are not an approved reseller or installer of Nexgen. Happy to answer any questions.  Old post I know but I have only just seen it.

Thanks

Clive 

 

Edited July 11, 2019 by JSHarris
Removed company name, in accordance with forum terms and conditions

[Clive Osborne]

On 17/04/2019 at 10:10, jack said:

 

 

I was talking only about IR heaters relative to, eg, fan heaters. As I said above, other than how thin it is, I can't see any advantage of this NexGen product over, eg, ordinary electric UFH mats.

Nexgen goes on the surface of plasterboard or Ceilings not behind it. We also fit under carpet. Far Infrared changes wavelength with temperature and will not penetrate all items.Nexgen is far infrared heating. However if you put our product into a metal panel at 70C its radiant heat. We do not sell in panels .Again happy to be taken to task on questions here.

[Clive Osborne]

On 17/04/2019 at 13:19, scottishjohn said:

spoke to a guy 

and after some grilling  he told me not SAPS approved til later this year for new builds 

 

Again happy to discuss.  All electric heating is going onto SAP. Its historically based on C02 emissions . From the ground up . It's nothing to do with our product but the government just realising that we dont produce 100% of electricity totally from coal anymore.

[Jeremy Harris]

2 minutes ago, Clive Osborne said:

Again happy to discuss.  All electric heating is going onto SAP. Its historically based on C02 emissions . From the ground up . It's nothing to do with our product but the government just realising that we dont produce 100% of electricity totally from coal anymore.

 

So, would I be correct in assuming that SAP would treat your product in exactly the same way as any other form of electric resistance heating? 

 

i.e., if a house had a heating requirement of 4,000 kWh/year, would your electric resistance heaters give a different rating in SAP than, say, any other form of electric resistance heating?

 

If your product is treated differently in SAP, perhaps you could explain why that is, please?

[Clive Osborne]

13 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

 

So, would I be correct in assuming that SAP would treat your product in exactly the same way as any other form of electric resistance heating? 

 

i.e., if a house had a heating requirement of 4,000 kWh/year, would your electric resistance heaters give a different rating in SAP than, say, any other form of electric resistance heating?

 

If your product is treated differently in SAP, perhaps you could explain why that is, please?

Well we do not know what the new SAP is . I was in Westminster in the Ministry of Housing late last year. Fact is CO2 emissions on generation of electricity are now in line with mains gas. Our government puts a green tax on electricity of 17% on Gas 1.8% ! So now they will work on CO2 and power used. I have no idea how they are going to work it out. But still happy to answer any questions.  We have full independent testing coming out soon. I can tell you it uses less power than other forms of electrical heating.  We will publish soon. The UFH Mats with wire do not heat 100% of the surface just the wire. We heat the whole area . They say 150w to 200w PSM for primary heating. We are a maximum of 120 watt PSM as a primary heat source. Surface even temperature is the same. The whole area heats up in less than a minute. Graphene and Graphite give us a very low resistance . Around 4 to 12 ohms . Wire mats around 300 ohms. Apply ohms law and you will see why we run in low voltage

 

Edited July 11, 2019 by Clive Osborne

[Clive Osborne]

On 17/04/2019 at 10:05, ProDave said:

Okay I accept that for a true IR heater.  the sort of things used a lot in churches to save heating the whole massive leaky building, instead shine some heat on the parishioners.

 

But this is a graphite "panel" that you put under the floor or behind the plasterboard on a wall.  Please someone explain to me how this is ANY different to ANY form or resistive electric heating placed under the floor.  If this claims to be radiant heat, then so is my under floor heating?

Please note we use Far Infrared not mid or near. We also get much more benefit on walls and ceilings than any other heating . To see the benefit of far infrared skiing whilst the sun is out  is a great example 

[Jeremy Harris]

12 minutes ago, Clive Osborne said:

Well we do not know what the new SAP is . I was in Westminster in the Ministry of Housing late last year. Fact is CO2 emissions on generation of electricity are now in line with mains gas. Our government puts a green tax on electricity of 17% on Gas 1.8% ! So now they will work on CO2 and power used. I have no idea how they are going to work it out. But still happy to answer any questions.  We have full independent testing coming out soon. I can tell you it uses less power than other forms of electrical heating.  We will publish soon. The UFH Mats with wire do not heat 100% of the surface just the wire. We heat the whole area . They say 150w to 200w PSM for primary heating. We are a maximum of 120 watt PSM as a primary heat source. Surface even temperature is the same. The whole area heats up in less than a minute. Graphene and Graphite give us a very low resistance . Around 4 to 12 ohms . Wire mats around 300 ohms. Apply ohms law and you will see why we run in low voltage

 

 

 

Sorry, but you seem to be avoiding the question a bit.  All this stuff about CO₂ emissions is just a red herring, and has no bearing at all when comparing one form of electric resistance heating with any other, as I'm absolutely sure you know.

 

The resistance of the heating element is neither here nor there either, as all that changes is the heat output, or electrical power input, for any given applied voltage, as I'm sure you're already aware.

 

Let's try making it a bit simpler.  If your heating elements are supplied with 1 kW of electrical power input, do they give out more than 1 kW of heat?

 

 

[Jeremy Harris]

6 minutes ago, Clive Osborne said:

Please note we use Far Infrared not mid or near. We also get much more benefit on walls and ceilings than any other heating . To see the benefit of far infrared skiing whilst the sun is out  is a great example 

 

This is, frankly, disingenuous.  The heat from your heating elements (or any other for that matter) ends up being absorbed by all the materials in the room, barring a part that will be radiated out through windows (even low e coated glazing allows some radiated heat to escape, as I'm sure you know).

 

The amount of heat each surface or material absorbs depends solely on it's surface temperature and emissivity. 

[Clive Osborne]

7 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

 

This is, frankly, disingenuous.  The heat from your heating elements (or any other for that matter) ends up being absorbed by all the materials in the room, barring a part that will be radiated out through windows (even low e coated glazing allows some radiated heat to escape, as I'm sure you know).

 

The amount of heat each surface or material absorbs depends solely on it's surface temperature and emissivity. 

7 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

 

This is, frankly, disingenuous.  The heat from your heating elements (or any other for that matter) ends up being absorbed by all the materials in the room, barring a part that will be radiated out through windows (even low e coated glazing allows some radiated heat to escape, as I'm sure you know).

 

The amount of heat each surface or material absorbs depends solely on it's surface temperature and emissivity. 

On 09/07/2019 at 09:56, SteamyTea said:

It is selling the infra red dream again.

Work well until you put some clothes on.

I really thought this nonsense had been banished, but seems that people think there is a real advantage to it still.

 

6 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

 

This is, frankly, disingenuous.  The heat from your heating elements (or any other for that matter) ends up being absorbed by all the materials in the room, barring a part that will be radiated out through windows (even low e coated glazing allows some radiated heat to escape, as I'm sure you know).

 

The amount of heat each surface or material absorbs depends solely on it's surface temperature and emissivity.