Moving boundaries

[Hecateh]

Yes = it wasn't picked up by my solicitor and seems to have been picked up by his solicitor just when they were about to sign.  Until I looked into I couldn't understand what he was saying about being land locked.  I now realise that if the new (and wrong) line was correct and the area belonged to someone else then they could effectively prevent access to the house.  

 

I am going to get straight on to The Land Registry now.  i have just been scanning in all relevant documents and am about to put them into an email.

 

The guy would not be living there even if the sale went through.  It is a family purchase to enable a daughter to live and look after her father who has alzheimer's. She can't afford the house on her own and this guy was adding additional finance

[Hecateh]

I've spoken to the land registry and have been told I need to send it all via snail mail.  (What century are we in?) 

He also said if it as clear cut as it sounds then it could be sorted within a couple of weeks.

 

[Ferdinand]

Your solicitor will be able t9 put in this query through the Professional Support side, if they have the appropriate business service from the LR.

 

Might that be a better route?

 

F

[Big Jimbo]

4 minutes ago, Hecateh said:

I've spoken to the land registry and have been told I need to send it all via snail mail.  (What century are we in?) 

He also said if it as clear cut as it sounds then it could be sorted within a couple of weeks.

 

Well done, fingers crossed. Dont forget to photocopy all your docs, and try and keep the originals. LR won't return any paperwork you send them. They are very slow, so a friendly once a week phone call to them to ask how it is going will be worth doing. Fingers crossed for you, and good luck with the sale. Keep on top of the agent. Those who shout loudest and all that.

[Big Jimbo]

Just another thought. As you have a solicitor they would photocopy you original docs, and certify them, as true copies of the original docs. If they charged you it would prop only be a few quid.

[Hecateh]

36 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

Your solicitor will be able t9 put in this query through the Professional Support side, if they have the appropriate business service from the LR.

 

Might that be a better route?

 

F

 

29 minutes ago, Big Jimbo said:

Just another thought. As you have a solicitor they would photocopy you original docs, and certify them, as true copies of the original docs. If they charged you it would prop only be a few quid.

Thanks, I'll talk to solicitors.  It will probably add a few quid but worth it if it speeds things up

[Ferdinand]

5 minutes ago, Hecateh said:

 

Thanks, I'll talk to solicitors.  It will probably add a few quid but worth it if it speeds things up

 

Imo it may well be their cockup so perhaps you should expect some rebate or no extra charges.

 

F

[Hecateh]

Well they should have spotted it but I doubt that will count for anything.  Nothing is ever their fault - they just take instruction.

 

Could have been sorted by now if either set of solicitors spotted it in the first place

 

[Jeremy Harris]

16 minutes ago, Hecateh said:

Well they should have spotted it but I doubt that will count for anything.  Nothing is ever their fault - they just take instruction.

 

Could have been sorted by now if either set of solicitors spotted it in the first place

 

 

My experience (on two plots with boundary errors) has been that the solicitor/conveyancer has had a get-out when it came to whether they should have spotted the errors (neither one did).  On both occasions I was sent a copy of the plan showing the land to be conveyed and asked to confirm whether the plan was accurate or not.  It was down to me to confirm whether or not it was, as neither time were obvious boundary errors (and in the first case an unlawfully repositioned public footpath) spotted by the solicitor/conveyancer.

[newhome]

There’s always a bloody get out. When my neighbour tried to sue her solicitor for screwing up the meaning of the burden (covenant) and giving the wrong advice she was told by a very expensive property lawyer that she wouldn’t be successful because 2 other solicitors had interpreted the burden in the same way therefore negligence would be difficult to prove. So 3 useless solicitors makes it ok to be wrong apparently! 

 

[Hecateh]

 

1 hour ago, JSHarris said:

 

My experience (on two plots with boundary errors) has been that the solicitor/conveyancer has had a get-out when it came to whether they should have spotted the errors (neither one did).  On both occasions I was sent a copy of the plan showing the land to be conveyed and asked to confirm whether the plan was accurate or not.  It was down to me to confirm whether or not it was, as neither time were obvious boundary errors (and in the first case an unlawfully repositioned public footpath) spotted by the solicitor/conveyancer.

 

55 minutes ago, newhome said:

There’s always a bloody get out. When my neighbour tried to sue her solicitor for screwing up the meaning of the burden (covenant) and giving the wrong advice she was told by a very expensive property lawyer that she wouldn’t be successful because 2 other solicitors had interpreted the burden in the same way therefore negligence would be difficult to prove. So 3 useless solicitors makes it ok to be wrong apparently! 

 

 

Not even attempting to go there.  I know they have get out clauses and I'll just cause myself even more stress and get no where.  

[Mr Punter]

This happens quite frequently and is easiest to resolve with a decent conveyancing solicitor. The LR seem pretty quick at responding, so I do not think it should take too long, although it can take a few months for the amended plan to be registered.

 

I had a fairly complex one recently where the registered plan showed some parking in slightly the wrong place as we shuffled them about at a late stage to accommodate service runs etc. We had to transfer some small parcels of land between 2 titles / owners.  Legal fees were £3,500 on the time record but we agreed on £2,000. It was a bit of a pain but we wanted to make sure all the plots on site had and accurate plan.

 

I am not sure if you are able to exchange contracts and delay completion subject to the LR issue being resolved?

[Hecateh]

1 hour ago, Mr Punter said:

I am not sure if you are able to exchange contracts and delay completion subject to the LR issue being resolved?

That's not going to happen.

This guy has ranted at me for not doing what he wants when he wants it.

 

He doesn't make requests, he told me to do something that wasn't necessary and when I asked why and what benefit it was he just stated 'IT IS GOING TO HAPPEN'

He has threatened the Estate Agent and shouted and sworn at both the manager and the agent looking after my property.

 

I wanted to pull out a fortnight ago when he started getting arsey but the Estate Agent, who hadn't had direct dealings with him at that time, said it was better to stick with it rather than start again.

 

I'm glad it's been flagged up - I can now do something abut it and get it sorted.  Hopefully I'll get a decent buyer soon.

 

Edited April 12, 2019 by Hecateh

[newhome]

At least you can remarket it knowing that it’s getting sorted and hopefully this time round you will get a decent buyer. 

[Mr Punter]

19 hours ago, Hecateh said:

This guy has ranted at me for not doing what he wants when he wants it.

 

He doesn't make requests, he told me to do something that wasn't necessary and when I asked why and what benefit it was he just stated 'IT IS GOING TO HAPPEN'

He has threatened the Estate Agent and shouted and sworn at both the manager and the agent looking after my property.

 

I am sorry this one did not work out. There are a few very odd people at large.

[recoveringbuilder]

When we sold our first house it was in the middle of the land that belonged to us so we were splitting it up and keeping land to both the left and right of it, we measured everything out very carefully and with the help of our son in law who is a QS we plotted it on to the plan, imagine our surprise when our solicitor arrived one Sunday at teatime to check that we had measured correctly! She definitely didn’t want any comeback 

[Jeremy Harris]

To be fair to our solicitor, she did ask me specifically to check the boundaries on the ground were as shown on the title plan, although she didn't specifically mention that she'd spotted that one was way out (not sure how anyone could miss it, as she had both the title plan and the vendors topo plan in the file). This is the pre-amendment title plan she had:

 

 

and this is the topo survey she had, showing the on-the-ground boundaries:

 

[Hecateh]

Letter sent to land registry with copies of original land registry and mine in 2000.

 

They wrote back within a couple of days asking for copies of all other transfer for deeds to ensure a piece hadn't been separated off during the last 70 years.  I posted that back to them on Monday of this week (17 sheets).

 

I received a letter back today confirming the title plan had been altered as requested and enclosing an official copy of the registry and plan.  Pretty good service I think.

 

One issue done.  

 

I've had one viewing since the buyer pulled out (loved the house but didn't like that there were steps down to the garden for the dog)  - there is level access at the other side) and I have another one today so fingers crossed

[newhome]

So your buyer clearly was a knob as it has all been sorted out quite quickly! 

[Hecateh]

3 minutes ago, newhome said:

So your buyer clearly was a knob as it has all been sorted out quite quickly! 

Yep

 

He was looking for an excuse as no questions were asked he just cancelled the buy.

 

I think there was a difference of opinion in how much he was going to do to the house for the women who was going to be living there.  Debating whether to let her know that it has all been sorted - just in case there is a way to resurrect it

[newhome]

Just now, Hecateh said:

Debating whether to let her know that it has all been sorted - just in case there is a way to resurrect it

 

What’s the harm. I’d let her know. 

[Temp]

On ‎11‎/‎04‎/‎2019 at 20:32, Hecateh said:

so am entitled to claim adverse possession.

 

I wouldn't count on that. To claim adverse possession the land has to be fenced off "to the exclusion of all others" (their words). It certainly doesn't look like it meets that criteria so very unlikely they will let you go down that route.

 

I would get title plans for all the land that surrounds the bit you think you own. That will tell you if you simply have a missing bit (it's not shown on any other plans) or if its likely there will be a dispute (it does appear on another title plan)

 

Then take a look at ..

"Correct a boundary mistake on a title plan"

https://www.gov.uk/your-property-boundaries/correct-boundary-mistake-title-plan

 

Given the good evidence you have I think you stand a good chance of getting it corrected.

[Moira Niedzwiecka]

@Hecateh I had similar, a part of my garden was unregistered.

It had been enclosed & maintained by me for 20 yrs ( I think 12 yrs is minimum) & I had had exclusive use of it.

Just had to apply for possessory title.

Any decent solicitor can do it.

Do use a proper solicitor, not a conveyancing factory.

It is also possible to claim adverse possession if you have enclosed & maintained a piece of land & had exclusive use of it without permission.

 

[Hecateh]

3 hours ago, Temp said:

 

I wouldn't count on that. To claim adverse possession the land has to be fenced off "to the exclusion of all others" (their words). It certainly doesn't look like it meets that criteria so very unlikely they will let you go down that route.

 

I would get title plans for all the land that surrounds the bit you think you own. That will tell you if you simply have a missing bit (it's not shown on any other plans) or if its likely there will be a dispute (it does appear on another title plan)

 

Then take a look at ..

"Correct a boundary mistake on a title plan"

https://www.gov.uk/your-property-boundaries/correct-boundary-mistake-title-plan

 

Given the good evidence you have I think you stand a good chance of getting it corrected.

 

58 minutes ago, Moira Niedzwiecka said:

@Hecateh I had similar, a part of my garden was unregistered.

It had been enclosed & maintained by me for 20 yrs ( I think 12 yrs is minimum) & I had had exclusive use of it.

Just had to apply for possessory title.

Any decent solicitor can do it.

Do use a proper solicitor, not a conveyancing factory.

It is also possible to claim adverse possession if you have enclosed & maintained a piece of land & had exclusive use of it without permission.

 

All sorted, no solicitor or conveyancer needed.

 

I had all the deeds dating back to the 1800's and for my specific piece of land dating back to 1950, with every transfer of rights detailed.  

 

Somehow it had been wrongly registered when the deeds went digital.  I sent in the evidence.  They have corrected it.  ALL DONE

[Moira Niedzwiecka]

@Hecateh

I am at work & started typing my post hours ago on & off & then just pushed send before I had read rest of thread.

So glad all sorted.