Entrance

[Jilly]

More Noddy questions:

 

I need to create an entrance, the location of which is indicated on our planning permission and has been approved by highways. Is it usual to create a temporary one, before the  one which gets approved by highways withour dropped kerb application which has to be done after the driveway is finished? (!) Which obviously we would do when the build is done.

 

Any suggestions on how to do this cheaply, please? Incidentally a dropped kerb isn't actually needed as there is no pavement... 

It has to go over a ditch and hedge (which has been chopped, but not grubbed out). 

 

 

[Declan52]

You will have to strip the verge and backfill with some hard-core.  At least 250mm as  the delivery trucks will compact this down.  Depending on how easy it is to turn into your entrance it might need to be 5m wide to allow all the lorries to get on to your site. 

The  ditch,  how wide and how deep is it?? 

[ProDave]

Stupid question, but why not do the proper dropped kerb now?

[Jilly]

I have to get an approved contractor to do it and as I understand it, it can't be done until the drive is done. I'm assuming it would be usual to do the drive proper after the build is finished? Unless I've misunderstood, and the council mean the 'drive' is just the bit over the ditch (its not very deep, but full of crud). The planning permission width is 3.5m at the house side (7m on the road side with vision splay). We should be ok for turning, as there is plenty of room and a good area of road scalpings, which was used for horses, and which I am considering as my new 'drive' area. 

[ProDave]

The normal thing if doing tarmac as we are, is just lay the sub base and the coarse base layer of tar now, and finish off the top layer once complete.

 

If you are crossing a ditch you will need to culvert that.

[PeterW]

1 hour ago, Jilly said:

to go over a ditch

 

Is that just a ditch or is it a drainage culvert ..?? If it’s a culvert then filling it in maybe a problem. You will need to put in some sort of pipe to allow water to flow along. 

 

 

[Temp]

My understanding is that at some point you will need an application for a license under Section 184 of the Highways Act 1980. This is also known as a "dropped kerb" application. However its a bit more complicated when a ditch is involved. 

 

I found that Boston (Lincs?) had a guide here..

 

http://www.boston.gov.uk/PlanningDocs/BBC/B-18-0323/LCC crossing specification.pdf

 

..which mentions who you need to get permission from on the last page. Sorry but that doc appears to be images in a pdf so I can't cut and paste the relevant bit but it's only a few pages long.

 

It also refers to "Typical layouts" and "Details of Designs" being available from the Highways office so it might be possible for you to get example drawings from your LA and use them to make your own drawings to submit with your license application. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 7, 2019 by Temp

[ToughButterCup]

3 hours ago, PeterW said:

[...] If it’s a culvert then filling it in maybe a problem. You will need to put in some sort of pipe to allow water to flow along. 

 

And sometimes you can find ' second hand ' culvert piping : you'll need  to ask around and pick it up with your own trailer .... How deep's the ditch?

[Ferdinand]

I would like to hear chapter and verse on this. Is the road classified?

 

I have a house on a 100m stretch of unclassified road between two pieces of B road, and the Council told me they would have trouble refusing me permission to open up my garden for parking therefore (ie no PP required on unclassified road).They could only demand a level of quality in the construction of the drop kerb and crossing .. like Building Regs.

 

In the countryside I believe you do not need anyone’s permission at all if the road is unclassified, and you have direct access. For example see this page:

https://www.thwlegal.co.uk/about-us/news/public-highways-and-access

 

If there is a verge you will probably want permission of the Highways Authority to cross it. Who owns the ditch?

 

As for what to install, I would just think about a BFO checker pattern steel plate and go straight across everything, or at least the ditch, making sure it is suitable anchored. If steel plates work for roadworks ... Perhaps it would need some reinforcing with hardcore. But I have not done this, and others will tell you if my suggestion does not work, and why.

 

If discreet, JDI and wait for someone to go Oi! might work. After all, you already have permission in the PP as a defence.

 

Your call.

 

Ferdinand

 

Edited March 7, 2019 by Ferdinand

[Temp]

Correct. You don't need Planning Permission to form a new access to/from an unclassified road.

 

You may still need permission from various bodies if it involves converting an open ditch to a piped ditch/culvert. Some council documents say you need permission from the EA, others say the county council, others refer to "drainage boards". 

 

The CIRIA guide to Culvert Design and Operation C689 says it's different depending on which part of the UK you are in.

 

For England it refers to the Flood and Water Management Bill 2009(?) and says IDB (Internal Drainage Boards), county and unitary local authorities have responsibility for giving consent for culverting "ordinary water courses" (eg not rivers, that's the EA?).