deuce22 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 Hi. I am now coming to the end of 4 months since my planning application was submitted. The planning officer has asked if I can extend it for another month whilst they are just waiting on a few more things. I have managed to find solutions to all the issues they’ve had so far, but the next thing they want detailed is a cross section of the property in relation to the house in front. The 2 properties that are in front and below have objections and concerns about a few things. The one neighbours concerns are understandable and there won’t be a problem dealing with them. However the other neighbour has issues with privacy and sunlight. A garage that I will be building will be towards the party wall and an existing garage. How far away should I be from both these structures to stay within the law. I will be around 3m away from the existing garage and 5-6m away from the party wall. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 Loss of privacy is usually to do with overlooking and the planners are particularly concerned with windows having views of private rear gardens and can sometimes be dealt with y making such windows fixed shut obscure glass up to 1700m from ffl. The sunlight is a bit more subjective and if it is an issue you may have to produce a daylighting study to justify that the scheme does not cause excessive overshadowing to the rear garden or reduce the light to existing rooms to an unacceptable extent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 distance is fine for legal --but its what your planning man says about the objection--that will decide it. are you higher up than neighbour ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSharp01 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 (edited) Take care with sunlight issues. While people are not entitled to a view they are entitled to light and, this is the curious bit, the planners are not obliged to take this right into account. IIRC once someone has lived somewhere for more than 15 years (this could be wrong) they earn the right to light and you, as the developer, need to either not infringe it or buy it out! Again IIRC the right to light only extends to light coming into buildings via windows so is not about their veg patch. As @Mr Puntersays it is a bit subjective but a ful sun survey will show you the problem, if one exists. Edited February 23, 2019 by MikeSharp01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 Ok - so if you build on the party line, or excavate footings that fall within the 45 degree rule then the garage becomes an issue however there are quick and simple ways round this. Firstly, build the garage on a raft with a thickened edge - 300mm footings will support a single brick wall and standard roof construction on decent ground. This becomes essentially a no-dig foundation so can go as near as 300mm to the party wall. The second on right to light is more complex. The law around this is vague and there are a number of legal arguments around whether a garden can be classed as “the dwelling” when referring to light or shadowing. Brady’s have a useful article on it, and the simplest way to view it is how much will the property overshadow the other. In honesty I’m surprised unless the neighbour has gone into extensive detail about their light levels in rooms that planning are interested. I would though try and resolve this with the neighbour as you’re going to have to live next to them ..!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, scottishjohn said: its what your planning man says about the objection--that will decide it. Thats incorrect. A planner can only take into consideration an objection that is against planning policy - they cannot take into consideration that someone just “doesn’t like” the proposed scheme. There are numerous cases on here where members have had objections and still had planning passed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 Just now, PeterW said: Thats incorrect. A planner can only take into consideration an objection that is against planning policy - they cannot take into consideration that someone just “doesn’t like” the proposed scheme. There are numerous cases on here where members have had objections and still had planning passed. yes I know that -,but in practise they quite often don,t follow proper guidelines or are overuled by councillors if it gets that far -but that is why the planning want more time to look at it and make a decision at this time but you can then challenge them if they up hold his objection and pay to have some fancy planning man fight it for you - but thats later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 Worth remembering that there is a presumption that any planning application will be approved unless there are sound planning policy reasons to refuse. Local authorities are getting more cautious about refusing planning applications where there is no good reason to do so, as the costs of losing an appeal fall to them, and can be substantial. As long as an application doesn't breach any planning policy then it should be approved, and if it's not then there are probably good grounds to appeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 You mention properties in front and below? I assume you are on a hill or the side of a hill. There are some more specific requirements about a property looking down onto another. Do you have a plan of the proposal to make things clearer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deuce22 Posted February 23, 2019 Author Share Posted February 23, 2019 (edited) The garage has a room above which will be for a home office and the gable end is facing the neighbours property. There are only windows in the roof. I can’t see there being any overshadowing from the sun as the ground keeps rising for a few hundred metres behind my house. I am higher up than the neighbour, but then there is another property behind me thats a lot higher again. The people recently moved in. I bought the plot off the owner that also owned the property that they’re in. They told him that they had no objections when they were buying, now they’ve changed there minds. The party wall next to the existing garage is a chain link fence, so there’s no issues with a wall falling down, his garage is a further 2m or so away from that. That’s exactly what I would have preferred PeterW. If they communicated with me directly, we could have sorted all this out. I will try and speak with them to put there minds at ease. The last thing I want is to be having disputes with neighbours. That’s what I thought PeterW. If the objections could potentially have serious consequences then it would be considered. Just because they don’t like what is going to be happening is not serious enough. Edited February 23, 2019 by deuce22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deuce22 Posted February 23, 2019 Author Share Posted February 23, 2019 (edited) The neighbours house is below the garage and I have moved it quite a bit away from the boundary. The ground slopes up from the bottom boundary to the top and keeps rising behind the property. The bottom edge of the property is about 25m away from the boundary. Edited February 23, 2019 by deuce22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 Hi @deuce22 you may want to edit your earlier post as it starts with stuff to do with dentistry. Also where you have your drawing, perhaps remove your address. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deuce22 Posted February 23, 2019 Author Share Posted February 23, 2019 (edited) Cheers Mr Punter. What's the problem with the address? Should I just crop it out? I think I've left it in on another plan I've put on here. Edited February 23, 2019 by deuce22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 (edited) Being harsh. Looking at it from the point of view of the land to the left of your garage on the pic, I make it that your garage is 1m or so from boundary, is essentially 6-7m high, and that the ground it is built on is higher already than next door. From the other side it must look rather .. er .. imposing. If I have that right, then I would probably be objecting very vigorously on grounds such as massing, overlooking, shade depending on the orientation, dominance and scale. I might also try my hand at a Visual Impact objection if I could make it stick. I would also possibly argue that it looked designed to be a future dwelling by stealth, which is not a planning matter but could stir up a useful controversy in the minds of the planning committee. I would probably want no windows on my side, and to lose the upper room or move it a lot further away .. like attached to the house. I may not have those relative dimensions right, however, and am not entirely clear wrt the relationship between the dwellings. A crop from the large scale council map showing the adjacent plots and properties, or from a Google earth, might help. Ferdinand Edited February 23, 2019 by Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, deuce22 said: Cheers Mr Punter. What's the problem with the address? Should I just crop it out? I think I've left it in on another plan I've put on here. Online salesman and potential forum reading thieves. Yes. Edited February 23, 2019 by Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deuce22 Posted February 23, 2019 Author Share Posted February 23, 2019 From the back of there house to the garage is about 16m and 3m from the garage. There house is about 10m or so away from the boundary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 (edited) Thanks that is quite useful, but I would need to see all the adjacent buildings and relationships, and orientations, and topography to comment in much more detail. I think I have pointed out most of the potential forms of objection that should be available. Things you will be able to do could include eg making the wall facing the neighbour less blank, or more interesting, or smaller eg a mono pitch low on that Side, or a partially hipped roof. As a wildcard, could you put your upstairs what we It is on the end and make the whole thing single storey; that feels like an extreme compromise however. I think you are correct to have a conversation if you can. I think an informal phone call to the Planning Officer to try and identify their latest concerns may be helpful, to ask about their interpretation of their policy, and to explore what they generally would think of as acceptable; they will have to form an opinion on that for their report. But take care not to make commitments, and you can only expect useful indications in return. But it will still be useful, probably. Ferdinand Edited February 23, 2019 by Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 The only thing I can glean from the plan so far is it is an unusual layout / tight site (i.e not just a house in a row of houses) And without seeing where all the adjacent houses, gardens, garages and driveways fit, I could not suggest alterations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSharp01 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 When I read up on the right to light for our build I found that the planners cannot use this as a reason to refuse as there are pathways outside planning that'll let you sort it out and if they refused you and there was no right to light issue in the end they would have a problem. @PeterW is right it is very vague, we had a meeting with a solicitor and although they had done several cases each one seemed to hinge on a different matter and the rules although they look cut and dried have quite a few links in them. So you might gain the right to light in a given room by having morning and evening sun but no midday sun because of your old build. If you end up giving them morning and midday sun but no evening light in your new build you might still loose because the ray tracing method shows they now less area illuminated in their room than before. PS it's 20 years they have to live there to aquire it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 5 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said: When I read up on the right to light for our build I found that the planners cannot use this as a reason to refuse as there are pathways outside planning that'll let you sort it out and if they refused you and there was no right to light issue in the end they would have a problem. @PeterW is right it is very vague, we had a meeting with a solicitor and although they had done several cases each one seemed to hinge on a different matter and the rules although they look cut and dried have quite a few links in them. So you might gain the right to light in a given room by having morning and evening sun but no midday sun because of your old build. If you end up giving them morning and midday sun but no evening light in your new build you might still loose because the ray tracing method shows they now less area illuminated in their room than before. PS it's 20 years they have to live there to aquire it. I think that would be argued under loss of amenity, but I do not see this being close enough to anything to impact that. I think it has to be very close indeed. Useful note on loss of amenity https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/wiki/Planning_objection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deuce22 Posted February 24, 2019 Author Share Posted February 24, 2019 I think a lot of issues that I've been getting is due to the person I've used for the application. He is a SE by profession, but also does drawings, so he is not a true Architect. The majority of the things he's submitted has been very vague and basic. I'm having to meet him on site today to do the calculations for him to draw up a detailed cross section, including the surrounding properties. Hopefully this is good enough for them to finally make a decision. I'll post it up once it's completed. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 Get a topographic survey done if you have not already. Ask them to include the neighbouring buildings. Your architect can then easily add the proposed elevation of your buildings to create a context elevation. The survey will prove invaluable throughout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 13 minutes ago, Mr Punter said: Get a topographic survey done if you have not already. Ask them to include the neighbouring buildings. Your architect can then easily add the proposed elevation of your buildings to create a context elevation. The survey will prove invaluable throughout. Make sure the topo identifies anything off your plot that you may need to address ... eg the pavement across from your driveway, where your splays will go etc. It will add very little to the job, whilst a return visit will add loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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