Onoff

Fitting A Wall Hung WC

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Figured this might be helpful as a question in its own right.

 

Geberit frame is in with 9mm ply over the full face of the frame followed by 12mm Aqua Panel then tiles.

 

20180924_181344

 

There's a bit of a bow to due my poor tiling. 

 

I have the silicone spray ready to lube the flush & poo pipes up. I have Forever White as the final, "replaceable"   bead where pan meets wall. 

 

What should I stick the pan to the wall with? Sika EBT, CT1 etc. This to gap fill / even out and spread the load a bit I'm thinking. The back of the pan will probably be 2.5mm off the tile face either side and touching in the centre.

 

Any other tips for fitting these, first one I've done!

 

Cheers 

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Are you putting a sound mat at the back of the toilet 

I tightened all mine against the 5 mill foam

Then trimef the excess off with a Stanley knife 

Then a fine bead of forever white to finish

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30 minutes ago, nod said:

Are you putting a sound mat at the back of the toilet 

I tightened all mine against the 5 mill foam

Then trimef the excess off with a Stanley knife 

Then a fine bead of forever white to finish

 

No sound mat. If heard they didn't do much for sound deadening?

 

I can see their value as a squishy packer though. Wondering if I should order a mat though now!

 

On the sound deadening front I lined the back of the reveal where the frame is with ex-studio acoustic foam.

 

20170802_193845

 

 

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Yeah I agree 

Just a nice vision between the pan and tile 

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On 31/01/2019 at 08:16, Onoff said:

Figured this might be helpful as a question in its own right.

 

Geberit frame is in with 9mm ply over the full face of the frame followed by 12mm Aqua Panel then tiles.

 

20180924_181344

 

There's a bit of a bow to due my poor tiling. 

 

I have the silicone spray ready to lube the flush & poo pipes up. I have Forever White as the final, "replaceable"   bead where pan meets wall. 

 

What should I stick the pan to the wall with? Sika EBT, CT1 etc. This to gap fill / even out and spread the load a bit I'm thinking. The back of the pan will probably be 2.5mm off the tile face either side and touching in the centre.

 

Any other tips for fitting these, first one I've done!

 

Cheers 

 

@Nickfromwales , one for you maybe? You said previously ref the bow; "CT1 is your friend" just not sure in what context. Got plenty of CT1 & Sikaflex EBT.

 

Also found this but not sure if it's ref wall hung or back to wall type

 

 

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silly question  maybe --but how do you get to do any maintainence on the concealed toilet if you cannot get to all plumbing connections after you have tiled.

 

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2 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

silly question  maybe --but how do you get to do any maintainence on the concealed toilet if you cannot get to all plumbing connections after you have tiled.

 

 

Removing the flush plate gives access to the cistern so you can change all the components without being a gynaecologist.

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5 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

silly question  maybe --but how do you get to do any maintainence on the concealed toilet if you cannot get to all plumbing connections after you have tiled.

 

 

It's Geberit. Everything is accessible through the flush plate. Slightly different model to mine but you get the gist:

 

 

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Just now, Mr Punter said:

 

Removing the flush plate gives access to the cistern so you can change all the components without being a gynaecologist.

--ok ballcock valve yes

 you not going to get at soil pipe connections though if you spring a leak 

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3 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

--ok ballcock valve yes

 you not going to get at soil pipe connections though if you spring a leak 

 

You certainly won't. Tiles off / hack wall job.

 

I did water test mine.

 

20170719_224620

 

SAM_5751

 

 

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chances of getting same tiles in 10years time --pretty slim

It will be a nasty job --multicut down grout joints of tiles through drywall -then carefully reclaim tiles .

all good fun 

Edited by scottishjohn

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52 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

chances of getting same tiles in 10years time --pretty slim

It will be a nasty job --multicut down grout joints of tiles through drywall -then carefully reclaim tiles .

all good fun 

 

The main worry is the grey to brown pvc solvent weld joint. It's female to male for a start. Then as brown pvc isn't keen on ordinary solvent weld cement it's joined with pvc gap filling cement backed up by a ring of CT1. My inexperience meant I didn't even consider the grey/brown issue. I was going to do all in push fit then someone suggested solvent weld if I had the balls! :)

 

 

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my suggestion at this point would be to seal/bond  outside of the push connections with sika-flex or something -not sanitary sealer, but a PU adhesive once that goes off it ain.t going nowhere if you made a nice well smeared in bead  of it 

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55 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

chances of getting same tiles in 10years time --pretty slim

It will be a nasty job --multicut down grout joints of tiles through drywall -then carefully reclaim tiles .

all good fun 

 

Will be a shit 😉 job. 

 

I kept loads of spare tiles just in case of disasters. Next door has lovely tiles in kitchen / hall but some have broken and they can’t get replacements (bought house from a developer) so now they’re looking at replacing the whole damn lot and it’s a big space. 

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I am not keen on the weird pan connector sizes and the number of adaptors needed to make them work. We have done quite a few with a flexi and left a bit of room so you could take the pan off and replace the flexi if needed. You seem to get a fair amount of tiling tolerance around the pan connector but almost none at the top of the flush pipe.

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1 hour ago, scottishjohn said:

my suggestion at this point would be to seal/bond  outside of the push connections with sika-flex or something -not sanitary sealer, but a PU adhesive once that goes off it ain.t going nowhere if you made a nice well smeared in bead  of it 

 

They don’t need it. The only thing that deteriorated the rubber seals is UV light and they are in the dark. There is a triple seal on the Geberit frame, the flush pipe and waste pipe can’t move as they are locked into the frame by a very clever clip system. Once it’s on the wall, it’s not moving so there is no flex to break any joints or move any pipes. 

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2 hours ago, PeterW said:

 

They don’t need it. The only thing that deteriorated the rubber seals is UV light and they are in the dark. There is a triple seal on the Geberit frame, the flush pipe and waste pipe can’t move as they are locked into the frame by a very clever clip system. Once it’s on the wall, it’s not moving so there is no flex to break any joints or move any pipes. 

it was his pipe work not the geberit  connections i was referring too 

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55 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

it was his pipe work not the geberit  connections i was referring too 

Soil pipe is pretty much bombproof. I have been plumbing for over 23 years and cannot recall any more than a couple of leaking joints in all that time. @Onoff used the solvent weld fittings as he didn't want the knuckle showing proud of the stud framework and after cleaning and solvent welding with gap filler ( totally bombproof ) he pooped his pants and smeared CT1 over the joints ( pointless tbh, but it made him happy so I didn't say anything ) and then leak tested it.

Just imagine how many soil systems are connected and then buried / boxed-in every day, and then you'll realise its a storm in a teacup. The stuff is fit and forget unless you're a very bad plumber ( eg not a plumber at all ) ;) 

I've lost count of how many bathrooms I've done, and not had one leak EVER...….and trust me, a leak on that type of pipe is noticeable REAL soon :( 💩

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On ‎31‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 08:16, Onoff said:

There's a bit of a bow to due my poor tiling. 

Right. 

The pan is not 600mm wide, so what is the actual bow over the ~360-380mm width of the pan?

 

On ‎31‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 11:11, Onoff said:

I can see their value as a squishy packer though. Wondering if I should order a mat though now!

Not really. The foam will compress in the middle and not at the outer edges, so will be worse than the CT1 as it'll have zero 'grab' as its not an adhesive. Basically you'll be giving the pan something to move on. 

Dry fit the pan, get it level, and then mask up the tiles and the pan. Loosen the fixings so you have a 5mm gap all round the pan, pump in the CT1 and then re-fit. When you tighten up you'll see the excess CT1 being displaced, and when the centre section stops displacing it you're good to go. Make sure the pan is not off centre or pointing 'in either direction' and then set about clearing off the excess with wipes, then de-mask, and then a final wipe up so there is a gap left for white silicone to be applied as a cosmetic finish ( after the CT1 has fully cured ).

Once the CT1 has gone off, the thicker layers at the far left and right will have gone solid and will be creating a fix between the pan and the tiles, vs the foam gasket which would be doing neither.  

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2 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

Right. 

The pan is not 600mm wide, so what is the actual bow over the ~360-380mm width of the pan?

 

Not really. The foam will compress in the middle and not at the outer edges, so will be worse than the CT1 as it'll have zero 'grab' as its not an adhesive. Basically you'll be giving the pan something to move on. 

Dry fit the pan, get it level, and then mask up the tiles and the pan. Loosen the fixings so you have a 5mm gap all round the pan, pump in the CT1 and then re-fit. When you tighten up you'll see the excess CT1 being displaced, and when the centre section stops displacing it you're good to go. Make sure the pan is not off centre or pointing 'in either direction' and then set about clearing off the excess with wipes, then de-mask, and then a final wipe up so there is a gap left for white silicone to be applied as a cosmetic finish ( after the CT1 has fully cured ).

Once the CT1 has gone off, the thicker layers at the far left and right will have gone solid and will be creating a fix between the pan and the tiles, vs the foam gasket which would be doing neither.  

 

Clear as thanks.

 

Would Sika EBT be an alternative to the CT1? Seems somehow "tougher" when set yet still having some give. I've left:

 

- 1 full and one 1/2 tubes of clear CT1

- 1/2 tube of black CT1 Power Grab 'n Bond

- 1 tube of white Sika EBT

- 1/2 tube clear Evostick The Dog's B@ll@cks.

 

Going to need to do similar on the basin and pedestal. 

 

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Either or....

Sikaflex is quite unpleasant to remove at a later date, but will give a better grab. Truth is you don't need any more grab than the CT1 provides so up to you.

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Just now, Nickfromwales said:

Either or....

Sikaflex is quite unpleasant to remove at a later date, but will give a better grab. Truth is you don't need any more grab than the CT1 provides so up to you.

 

Ta.

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Just now, Nickfromwales said:

Either or....

Sikaflex is quite unpleasant to remove at a later date, but will give a better grab. Truth is you don't need any more grab than the CT1 provides so up to you.

you can remove the bolts once the sika has set --thats how good a grab its gets 

 

you would use your multicut to slice the bond to get it off .same as we do when removing vehicle bonded windscreens

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2 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Either or....

Sikaflex is quite unpleasant to remove at a later date, but will give a better grab. Truth is you don't need any more grab than the CT1 provides so up to you.

you told me yesterday you will never need to remove anyway ,as only servicing will be through flush panel 

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1 minute ago, scottishjohn said:

you told me yesterday you will never need to remove anyway ,as only servicing will be through flush panel 

Not for a leak I said :P

If the pan gets damaged then that's about the only reason you'd need to remove it. 

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