Icf blocks, like durisol, but not

[Russell griffiths]

Has anybody seen the new range of blocks that look like durisol, but have a lot of extra features 

 

@Sue B   @Tom's Barn

[Tom's Barn]

3 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

Has anybody seen the new range of blocks that look like durisol, but have a lot of extra features 

 

@Sue B   @Tom's Barn

the ISOTEX ones?

[Russell griffiths]

That could be them, I had a good look and they answer a lot of points that durisol miss. @Tom's Barn

they have a stand at the Swindon self build centre, I haven’t seen them before 

lots of extras on offer over the competitors. 

[scottishjohn]

also look at fixolite.be.

there are a few different versions  

then you have VELOX as well

[Sue B]

Don’t tell me you were at Swindon today @Russell griffiths - we went there to look at ASHP but too the opportunity to look at Velox again.  We have pretty much decided that Velox, although I really like the system is just too heavy  for two old farts like us, one with an arthritic shoulder.  

We spoke to the people on the Durisol stand again and nearly fell over.  I know Paula and her husband James who are both employed by Durisol.  

The guy on the Velox stand is the one who pointed us in the direction of the Isotex stand - I was interested in the product but didn’t know they had a stand there until he told me.

For me it is a manageable weight but also has a better concrete “wall” so that the air-tightness is more easily achieved.  

It doesn’t have BBA yet but the sales guy said they had received the letter of intent and just needed the fire rating tests completed.  He estimated 6 weeks but as we won’t be building until 2020 we should know for sure if they get it by our decision day.

Lead times appear better - they were claiming 5 days which sounds better than Durisol.

My biggest concern was cost - I suspect that it will be more expensive - when we have the planning permission on a house I actually like, we will get them both to give us a quote.

[ToughButterCup]

The local Durisol rep that looked after my build (ermmmm.... re-build) has changed product to Isotex.

He gave very clear reasons for doing so: A couple of weeks ago, I visited his last Durisol build - and in the light of what I saw, the move from Durisol to Isotex was understandable.

Durisol have had some senior management changes, and the training emphasis has changed too. Local reps are not involved in local training any more, it seems.  The MD has changed and the old MD is now the training manager. In some ways, that surprises me. Talking respectfully to customers was - until last year at least -  not in the senior management skill set.

 

[scottishjohn]

reasons for  isotex over durisol  would be of help 

As i have yet to decide on choice of ICF system yo use

post  or send message if you prefer 

[ToughButterCup]

That @scottishjohn ,  is a decision only you can make. I have nothing useful to say about any ICF other than Durisol.

[Tom's Barn]

15 hours ago, recoveringacademic said:

The local Durisol rep that looked after my build (ermmmm.... re-build) has changed product to Isotex.

He gave very clear reasons for doing so: A couple of weeks ago, I visited his last Durisol build - and in the light of what I saw, the move from Durisol to Isotex was understandable.

Durisol have had some senior management changes, and the training emphasis has changed too. Local reps are not involved in local training any more, it seems.  The MD has changed and the old MD is now the training manager. In some ways, that surprises me. Talking respectfully to customers was - until last year at least -  not in the senior management skill set.

 

"He gave very clear reasons for doing so: A couple of weeks ago, I visited his last Durisol build - and in the light of what I saw, the move from Durisol to Isotex was understandable."

 

Would it be possible for you to share his reasons for changing. I have a planned build this year and I am trying to make a final decision on which way to go. 

 

Also, if you completed your build from scratch starting in a few months time which build system would you go with in light of your experience. 

 

Clearly we are self builders of the future are only guided by the experience of others and sharing what you know helps us make our final decisions.

 

Many thanks in advance of your reply.

[Tom's Barn]

1 hour ago, scottishjohn said:

reasons for  isotex over durisol  would be of help 

As i have yet to decide on choice of ICF system yo use

post  or send message if you prefer 

Hi @scottishjohn

 

if you are interested in talking on the phone to share some thoughts on build systems I am happy to share what I have learnt so far. Send me a message if you are interested in chatting things through.

[Sue B]

We are going to the training day at Swindon for Durisol this week, we have just booked the equivalent day’s training for the Isotex system in February.  Both courses are free and available without purchase of the product.  

 

Happy to report back on pluses and minuses that we find once we have been on both.

[scottishjohn]

On 27/01/2019 at 12:50, Tom's Barn said:

the ISOTEX ones?

I have been studying these and contacted importer + checked info from maker

all I can say is that the information given by them and some of thier written info  does not agree with what the italian maker says 

example 

"do you need bracing ?

answer 

NO

up to one story 2.25m  --non required

 

GREAT --thinks me -thats saves alot of money  on multiple pours and pump hire and bracing hire

-then goes to product data and its says  every 5 or 6 rows fill with concrete --so that 1.25 to 1.5 m

It is  really worrying when you get these sort of answers  

no BBA approvel --could be june before that --no Uk spec inf  in writing ,still making pproper Uk spec info

so to me just as well I,m in no hurry .

I will wait for UK spec to clarify these points 

I am not saying product is not good ,just beware of sales men 

 save me from salesman that do not know thier own product and just say yes  to everything 

then do the quick shuffle when you pick them up on it  ,and say its up to you to decide whats right for your own build -- 

beware of all salesmen and check tech info yourself

 

 

 

[Sue B]

There is an Isotex build going up in Leatherhead very shortly.  I have asked if we could be there on first pour day to see how it goes as it is commutable for us.

 

When we asked about bracing, we were told not that it is not needed and that the pour should be every 6 rows so that matches the sales information that we were given. 

 

I can’t see why BBA wouldn’t be forthcoming but would expect the structural warranty to insist on it anyway before we proceeded (regardless of how useless much accreditation appears to be). Therefore i’m not going to worry about that yet and assume it is going to happen until proved wrong.

[ToughButterCup]

8 hours ago, Tom's Barn said:

[...]

Would it be possible for you to share his reasons for changing.

[...]

 

I'd rather you contacted Jamie direct, please.

[Tom's Barn]

On 28/01/2019 at 15:29, scottishjohn said:

I have been studying these and contacted importer + checked info from maker

all I can say is that the information given by them and some of thier written info  does not agree with what the italian maker says 

example 

"do you need bracing ?

answer 

NO

up to one story 2.25m  --non required

 

GREAT --thinks me -thats saves alot of money  on multiple pours and pump hire and bracing hire

-then goes to product data and its says  every 5 or 6 rows fill with concrete --so that 1.25 to 1.5 m

It is  really worrying when you get these sort of answers  

no BBA approvel --could be june before that --no Uk spec inf  in writing ,still making pproper Uk spec info

so to me just as well I,m in no hurry .

I will wait for UK spec to clarify these points 

I am not saying product is not good ,just beware of sales men 

 save me from salesman that do not know thier own product and just say yes  to everything 

then do the quick shuffle when you pick them up on it  ,and say its up to you to decide whats right for your own build -- 

beware of all salesmen and check tech info yourself

 

 

 

Good to talk earlier John. I agree. The salesman has been promising me a quote since I sent the plans in December of last year. I have sent some updated plans (minor change in building length) to see if that prompts a quote and so far I have not heard anything. The salesman keeps saying how straight talking they are but no one has actually said why it is taking a long time to get a quote. I would have thought that as a new business that new orders for houses being built this year were a priority. I am certainly not feeling the as though my build is important to them. We shall see. I will give it another week and see if I have a response.

[Tom's Barn]

On 28/01/2019 at 18:27, recoveringacademic said:

 

I'd rather you contacted Jamie direct, please.

Happy to but I thought the idea of a forum was to share what we know or have learnt.

[Tom's Barn]

On 28/01/2019 at 17:33, Sue B said:

There is an Isotex build going up in Leatherhead very shortly.  I have asked if we could be there on first pour day to see how it goes as it is commutable for us.

 

When we asked about bracing, we were told not that it is not needed and that the pour should be every 6 rows so that matches the sales information that we were given. 

 

I can’t see why BBA wouldn’t be forthcoming but would expect the structural warranty to insist on it anyway before we proceeded (regardless of how useless much accreditation appears to be). Therefore i’m not going to worry about that yet and assume it is going to happen until proved wrong.

Hi Sue

 

I would be interested in a visit on the same day. Please do keep me in the loop.

 

I am going to check that Durisol has one; just interested to know.

[Tom's Barn]

Just now, Tom's Barn said:

Hi Sue

 

I would be interested in a visit on the same day. Please do keep me in the loop.

 

I am going to check that Durisol has one; just interested to know.

https://durisoluk.com/app/uploads/2017/02/Certification_BBA.pdf

 

found it

[Sue B]

At the Durisol training yesterday they stated that they were in the process of applying for BBA 2 (whatever that is) but don’t have it yet.  There also appears to be an issue if your warranty is with NHBC.  They glossed over both points but I did question both but and my notepad is at home where I wrote the notes Of their response.

 

At points, I thought I was the only one asking questions and thought the other people were going to start throwing things at me!!

[scottishjohn]

On 28/01/2019 at 15:29, scottishjohn said:

I have been studying these and contacted importer + checked info from maker

all I can say is that the information given by them and some of thier written info  does not agree with what the italian maker says 

example 

"do you need bracing ?

answer 

NO

up to one story 2.25m  --non required

 

GREAT --thinks me -thats saves alot of money  on multiple pours and pump hire and bracing hire

-then goes to product data and its says  every 5 or 6 rows fill with concrete --so that 1.25 to 1.5 m

It is  really worrying when you get these sort of answers  

no BBA approvel --could be june before that --no Uk spec inf  in writing ,still making pproper Uk spec info

so to me just as well I,m in no hurry .

I will wait for UK spec to clarify these points 

I am not saying product is not good ,just beware of sales men 

 save me from salesman that do not know thier own product and just say yes  to everything 

then do the quick shuffle when you pick them up on it  ,and say its up to you to decide whats right for your own build -- 

beware of all salesmen and check tech info yourself

 

 

 

update to this.

ISOTEX are now going to make a UKspec block,which will have 120mm concrete core ,which they say will be fine for up to 3 storey building ,with some rebar ,over the 140mm of italian spec -which will save 15%ish in concrete costs  -so all the paperwork is being reworked  to reflect that .

and the main man confirmed to me when he rang back yesterday  that the uk  spec will  say up to 2m height in one pour and no need for any serious type support system,just brace the corners with plywood sheeting to be super sure 

--that will be a big saving --£2-300 a week  for  bracing hire +delivery and return transport costs  to their base .

he also says that delivery of blocks from order will be 1week 

I will wait  to see all this writing in due course

 

Edited January 31, 2019 by scottishjohn

[Tom's Barn]

5 hours ago, Sue B said:

At the Durisol training yesterday they stated that they were in the process of applying for BBA 2 (whatever that is) but don’t have it yet.  There also appears to be an issue if your warranty is with NHBC.  They glossed over both points but I did question both but and my notepad is at home where I wrote the notes Of their response.

 

At points, I thought I was the only one asking questions and thought the other people were going to start throwing things at me!!

well done Sue; I was the same on my last training day. Loads of questions. It is the only way to understand the product as they information on the web is out of date.

[nickw]

I'm in exactly the same boat, what to use, velox, durisol, isotex....at the moment isotex is coming out ahead, on cost and the product. Also no bba approval but at the moment the european ce should be fine. The quality does look better than the durisol, ex durisol employees selling the product as close as "copying" will allow but making improvements where needed, at least that how it seems to me. My quotes are coming at Isotex cheapest, Durisol waiting to see if they will match and also velox waiting to see if matched.

Each ones sells their own "pros" for their product , it might "uk based" or "included overage" or "buy back, unused blocks" or "local support" I've listened to them all and still can't decide. I leading towards isotex as I said, my reasons are it looks and feels better as I was at swindon the other day, size is nice for self builder, hasn't got a gazillion ties to place and or cut for plastering afterwards. It's smoother and possibly will save me on rendering cost. Lastly all the"promised" support from all suppliers may not amount to anything unless more money changes hands, of course from my hands to theirs not the other way around and i'm sure it'll be my fault I need more product and so means I might as well go for the lowest quote and in my case the best quality ( my novice opinion) and any extra cost would/will happen with any of them.   

[ToughButterCup]

@nickw, what's the price differential between the different types?

 

There's more to an ICF block than its price.

Ease of handling, ease of re-order, lead time between (re) order and delivery, quality of the blocks, skill level of those using it, storage dry? wet?, what happens in frost? , training support, chemistry between you and the rep(s). I'm sure I've missed some things.

 

Price is important but.....

[nickw]

Yup I agree Ian with all of that, all of the guys I have dealt with from all 3 suppliers have been great. As for re-order, quality and support It's a learning curve I will definitely experience.

[Russell griffiths]

IMHO 

Look at what you are building and pick a product for that job

i have just finished my icf and chose nudura, now I have finished that bit I am very glad I didn’t choose one of the wood fibre/ cement type blocks. 

On my build it would have added lots of scaffolding costs, forklift costs, and a serious amount of heavy handling. 

As I said it’s job dependant, so don’t just look at the price.