Does this seem legit?

[Roz]

Does this seem a legitimate way of getting an ASHP? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FREE-LG-Air-Source-Heat-Pump-Supplied-Installed-Pay-Just-25-Per-Month/254052998032?_trkparms=aid%3D555017%26algo%3DPL.CASSINI%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D55149%26meid%3D9d7364fc30d94196a1c922fc8c3a4612%26pid%3D101006%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26%26itm%3D254052998032&_trksid=p2045573.c101006.m3226

 

It says £25 per month for 7 years... which is £2100 apparently including fitting and 'maitenance'

 

Having no upfront cost would be pretty tempting for us, but seems like a low overall price? 

[Roz]

seems the same as this web page: http://www.gfsd.co.uk/copy-of-free-heating-ashp

 

and this: http://www.ecothermosolutions.co.uk/heat-pumps.html

Edited January 12, 2019 by Roz

[ProDave]

I looked at these.  Basically they claim the RHI on your behalf so you won't get that if you were eligible so that is another way it is being paid for.

 

So for 7 years they get £25 per month from you plus whatever RHI payment it would be eligible for.

[scottishjohn]

--  get sizing checked by independant heating engineer-if not right size it will not be  as cheap to run as you think

and what happens if it dies -who pays to replace it for the rest of the 7 years

Edited January 12, 2019 by scottishjohn

[Roz]

3 minutes ago, ProDave said:

I looked at these.  Basically they claim the RHI on your behalf so you won't get that if you were eligible so that is another way it is being paid for.

 

So for 7 years they get £25 per month from you plus whatever RHI payment it would be eligible for.

I think we would never get RHI anyway as wouldnt be able to afford an accredited installation and unit. So that's not too much of an issue for us. 

[Roz]

2 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

--  get sizing checked by independant heating engineer-if not right size it will not be  as cheap to run as you think

and what happens if it dies -who pays to replace it for the rest of the 7 years

our place is pretty small so I'd be surprised if it was too small but will check. 

Yes so I need to know if there's a warranty that applied, good point.

[newhome]

Someone suggested one of these to me but I decided against because if I wanted to sell in the next 7 years while the RHI payments were running (I believe that ownership probably switches to you after that time) it might complicate things. I imagine there is a 'buy out' clause in the contract but that might be expensive if the buyer didn't want to commit to the system until the end of the term. Having read many examples of people who were caught out by the 'free solar panel' schemes and were now having difficulty selling their homes, getting a remortgage or equity release I decided not to progress it. Plus many of those companies went bust to complicate things even further. 

 

If you plan to stay there forever and never remortgage it might be worth considering I guess. They will probably only take your house on if it meets a certain RHI payment level I imagine so if your house is very well insulated they may not be interested as it may not generate enough income for them. 

[Roz]

15 minutes ago, newhome said:

Someone suggested one of these to me but I decided against because if I wanted to sell in the next 7 years while the RHI payments were running (I believe that ownership probably switches to you after that time) it might complicate things. I imagine there is a 'buy out' clause in the contract but that might be expensive if the buyer didn't want to commit to the system until the end of the term. Having read many examples of people who were caught out by the 'free solar panel' schemes and were now having difficulty selling their homes, getting a remortgage or equity release I decided not to progress it. Plus many of those companies went bust to complicate things even further. 

 

If you plan to stay there forever and never remortgage it might be worth considering I guess. They will probably only take your house on if it meets a certain RHI payment level I imagine so if your house is very well insulated they may not be interested as it may not generate enough income for them. 

that's interesting newhome. 

 

We might sell within 7 years (who knows) and will definitely remortgage once the place is in the right condition. I figured that either this £25 would transfer for a few years (this wouldn't put me off as a buyer) or we would continue to pay it for the remainder of the 7 years (this wouldn't really botherme either, as it saves us from paying up front). What were the problems that solar panels brought on similar schemes? Just these or more complicated?

I figured if they went bust then we'd own the unit as it would be at our house and cant see them wanting to remove it, but I can ask them what would happen in those cases.

 

 

[Roz]

ah " The only conditions are that you agree not to move or interfere with the system for a duration of 7 years from the date of install."

[newhome]

The point is that the new buyer is not allowed to remove it whether they want to or not regardless of whether you are paying the £25, plus they have to commit to having an internet connection. Many buyers won’t want to be tied into something like that because they may want to remortgage or sell the house on and such an arrangement will limit what they are able to do. 

 

I believe that you will need to enter into an assignment of rights contract with the company. You should probably take legal advice before signing such a contract. If you sell, the buyer will have to agree to take on that contract unless you buy out of it. 

 

And they don’t own the system, you do, but you will have assigned the rights to the RHI payments to them so you have contractual obligations to meet in return. 

 

No doubt if the company went bust the assignment of rights would be transferred on to another company. 

 

 

[nickw]

Any more feedback on this?

I've asked them for evidence that any installs have happened or are happening and as of yet no evidence is forthcoming. I've been told a project manager of an install will call me, so far nothing. All seems to good to be true. 

[nickw]

Keep promising a call from actual installers, still nada , when it looks too good to be true it normally is. Can only presume it's an easy scam 

[newhome]

7 hours ago, nickw said:

Keep promising a call from actual installers, still nada , when it looks too good to be true it normally is. Can only presume it's an easy scam 

 

I don’t think it’s a scam. I couldn’t get anyone to engage from any company and I was going to pay for a system so I think it’s simply that they have so much work they can afford to pick and choose. 

[Ferdinand]

On 08/02/2019 at 11:08, nickw said:

Any more feedback on this?

I've asked them for evidence that any installs have happened or are happening and as of yet no evidence is forthcoming. I've been told a project manager of an install will call me, so far nothing. All seems to good to be true. 

 

Two side notes.

 

1 - It has similarities (but is more complex) to "rent a boiler", which is something that has been around in the small LL market for some time. 

 

2 - With a RHI there is a similar feel to "rent a roof" solar - and I expect that the mentioned issue with resales is a very real one. I looked into buying a rentaroof solar house in the expectation that there would be a "buggeration discount" (I would have offered 10% below one without it, and also taken most of the buyout charges off), and there would have been, as there would be another contract involved (admin charges?), and the solar supplier said that to buy them out would basically be a roll-up of all the future subsidies.

 

The upside is if the ASHP is going to last a lot longer than 7 years.

 

It may be acceptable, but needs careful planning on your part imo, and a toothcomb applied to the contract.

 

Ferdinand

 

[Roz]

8 hours ago, nickw said:

Keep promising a call from actual installers, still nada , when it looks too good to be true it normally is. Can only presume it's an easy scam 

When I was looking at this I emailed a couple of places about it and got no responses. I messaged one of the ones advertised on eBay asking if they offered to new homes and whether you could move within the 7 years, and just got a "yes and yes" sort of response. Feel like if you can't take the time to reply properly then you're not going to be great at customer service down the line. Ended up forgetting about it, I liked the idea of its simplicity, having installation included etc, but it doesn't seem worth it for the problems it might cause. 

 

Let us know if you get any more real information though!

[nickw]

2 hours ago, Roz said:

When I was looking at this I emailed a couple of places about it and got no responses. I messaged one of the ones advertised on eBay asking if they offered to new homes and whether you could move within the 7 years, and just got a "yes and yes" sort of response. Feel like if you can't take the time to reply properly then you're not going to be great at customer service down the line. Ended up forgetting about it, I liked the idea of its simplicity, having installation included etc, but it doesn't seem worth it for the problems it might cause. 

 

Let us know if you get any more real information though!

 

I will indeed, soon as I can speak to someone that confirms this is happening and not just the company selling it.

[Temp]

There have been one or two stories in the press about issues with selling a house with rent a roof PV. I wonder if being tied into a similar contract for an ASHP would also cause problems?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5886950

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5679637

Edited February 14, 2019 by Temp

[nickw]

Last update for this particular system , complete rubbish it seems. I have had umpteen promises that a registered installer that is actually doing one of these projects will call me so I can verify their credentials and also the "group" doing the offer. No calls and just promises. I have also had confirmation from Ofgem to quote "

I am able to advise on specifically queried investors and I can confirm that we have received no application for a company called “MIN-GRID UK LTD”.

 

Two of the requirements for an Investor to apply to become a Registered Investor is that they must be a member of one of the two consumer Codes, these are RECC and HIES and they must have a model contract approved by the code before they apply to become a Registered Investor with Ofgem. "

So all in all does look like a complete scam of sorts.

I have asked for the URIR and contract Id  numbers and of course was promised them from "head Office" of course they did not materialize and once I queried this as it should be the easiest thing to supply.....no more emails or response so you can draw your own conclusion.

So be aware if you see this one advertised, I would leave well alone.

 

[karmorat]

Hi

beware of GFSD. They have good presale talk. What they offer sounds too good to be true. They claimed originally to have a huge contract with Mitsubishi and claim to be backed by a hedge fund. Now they claim to be in partnership with LG and no statement of hedgefund. They want an initial payment of £199 which they claim will be refunded when installation completed.  Once paid you will not hear from them again, all emails will be ignored. They do not appear to have put in any installations and for the last 5 months their website claims that everything is on hold due to 'Assignment of Rights' legislation being held up...whatever that means! Despite this they are still advertising for the 'free' air source heating and the £199 'refundable'  payment. They seem to be operating over the whole of UK and claim to be international but l have been unable to find any reviews.