dnoble Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 (edited) Looking for advice/reassurance I had a pre-commencement condition about tree protection of some elderly apple trees along the access to my new build. I had to erect a fence, install a root protection area before starting any development. I did this and sent photos etc to LPO but in my ignorance cracked on with the build before getting them formally signed off. (I just thought I had to DO it, assumed the siignb off was a formality and probably got it mixed up with the pre-occupation conditions) I then applied to have this, with some other conditions signed off in September. There was no response after 8 weeks so I did a deemed discharge notice. This led to an urgent (next day council tree officer visit) He said the RPA and edging were inadequate. Also there has been some concrete left by the foundation team which may cause leaching. The condition is "not discharged" I get the impression the deemed discharge notice has upset the LPO The outcome it this it that presumably I've breached planning permission. What is the likely outcome of this. Can they fine/prosecute? Where do I stand? I've tried phoning + emailing the LPO but not reply so far. Very stressed about this! Edited December 4, 2018 by dnoble tidying up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_r_sole Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 (edited) . Edited September 26, 2019 by the_r_sole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnoble Posted December 4, 2018 Author Share Posted December 4, 2018 They responded about day 10 after the deemed notice + sent round tree officer next day. I suppose my question is about how these problems are usually resolved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_r_sole Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 (edited) . Edited September 26, 2019 by the_r_sole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 What doesn't the tree officer like about the protection..? They can't just say they don't like it..! Has it been done to the recommendation in BS5387:2012..? Photo would be useful here. And unless the concrete has been left inside the RPA, he can't comment on that either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnoble Posted December 4, 2018 Author Share Posted December 4, 2018 I'm assuming so. The point of the pre-commencement condition was to prevent tree damage, so I wondered whether there'll be an implication that damage has occurred... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 (edited) remove concrete he is unhappy with NOW- and perform a soil test ther and in another part of your plot and give him some info , you have to suck up to him a little add something to counteract the leaching if the test at the area is much different than the surrounding ground and tell him what you have done could be you just got to wait till next spring and see if trees are happy --then another visit from tree man to confirm they are ok. there is no way you can turn back time Edited December 4, 2018 by scottishjohn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnoble Posted December 4, 2018 Author Share Posted December 4, 2018 9 minutes ago, PeterW said: What doesn't the tree officer like about the protection..? They can't just say they don't like it..! Has it been done to the recommendation in BS5387:2012..? Photo would be useful here. And unless the concrete has been left inside the RPA, he can't comment on that either... I ommitted some tanalised edging so the stone has strayed towards the trees. The concrete does encroach on the edge of the RPA, and you're right, it could be removed. The photo I submitted shows the membrane and cellular confinement stuff in situ, but I didn't get a pic of the clean stone in it as this happened and was covered by temporary crushed stone for the access path whilst I was at work. I didn't think I'd need evidence of every stage. The original arboricultural officer who specified the plan emailed to confirm it was done to standard, (he's now retired) but the councils tree officer/LPO appears to have disregarded this. I think technically it probably doesn't conform strictly and I'm already on the back foot a bit having proceeded without getting it signed off initially. Its frustratingly pointless exercise as the tress are old an at end of their natural life. I have planted 40 odd other trees elsewhere around the plot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 9 minutes ago, dnoble said: I'm assuming so. The point of the pre-commencement condition was to prevent tree damage, so I wondered whether there'll be an implication that damage has occurred... Chill..... Tree Officers have changed in the past few years and used to be ex-arborists or others with real tree knowledge. Nowadays they are more likely to be graduates with degrees in Norwegian Studies and Aardvark sexing, and try to do things "by the book". I've come across some that insist that the RPA design in BS5387 has to be followed, yet if you look in 6.2.2 it clearly states that these are examples...! The main paragraph about RPA barriers is as follows : 6.2.2.1 Barriers should be fit for the purpose of excluding construction activity and appropriate to the degree and proximity of work taking place around the retained tree(s). Barriers should be maintained to ensure that they remain rigid and complete. The bold section is key here - appropriate to the work taking place. I've seen scaffold poles used to mark the area, I've also seen Heras and specialist fencing similarly used to form a continuous barrier. In some circumstances, even scaffold net on pins is acceptable especially on long driveway runs. Got any photos..?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 1 minute ago, dnoble said: ommitted some tanalised edging so the stone has strayed towards the trees. That isn't an issue. The issue would be if the stone had become compacted and driven on during construction. If its under the fence then ignore it. Moving the concrete may be worthwhile but only because it shouldn't really be there anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnoble Posted December 4, 2018 Author Share Posted December 4, 2018 That all seems senisible, Peter. The question is really what the LPO will accept or require. I used heras fencing whch was OK'd (though I have to move it a couple of times as it didn't exactly fit the plan. There was supposed to be an edging of timber. Its along a 30m driveway and the trees are about 1m away from its edge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 While I don't know anything about the technicality of TPOs, I do know something about the difference between developers and self-builders. Here's not the place for the backstory. Now (four years after starting) I'd just bloody well get on with it. Every other builder round here would..... Understandably you are keen to keep it legal honest and truthful, (to plagiarise a phrase). And any LPA functionary, on finding some form of breach or error, has to (I think is actually required to) give you advice as to how to proceed. Pending that advice, or a response from the LPA, get on with it. Buy a Brino time lapse camera, set it up and evidence the fact that the trees are not suffering. Just Bloody Do It. A thicker skin is the norm for self-building after a while. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 1 hour ago, dnoble said: That all seems senisible, Peter. The question is really what the LPO will accept or require. I used heras fencing whch was OK'd (though I have to move it a couple of times as it didn't exactly fit the plan. There was supposed to be an edging of timber. Its along a 30m driveway and the trees are about 1m away from its edge 30m of Heras is OTT unless you are building along the whole tree line or have a non permeable driveway planned..? Was the timber edging in the design ..?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 (edited) They are very unlikely to prosecute. They haven't got the money to instigate lawsuits. My guess is they may issue some sort of stop notice or a notice of intended action (or something with a similar name). That may or may not give you a time limit to fix the problem. I would make good the tree protection ASAP and remove any concrete you can (hide the rest?). Then write to the tree officer to apologise for the inadequate tree protection measures "because you are new to this" and ask him to come and advise if the new measures in place are ok. Edited December 4, 2018 by Temp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnoble Posted December 4, 2018 Author Share Posted December 4, 2018 The Hera went along the edge go the tree/root protection area, so profanely only 10-20m of this. The tanalised timber was supposed to be at the bottom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnoble Posted December 4, 2018 Author Share Posted December 4, 2018 27 minutes ago, recoveringacademic said: I'd just bloody well get on with it. Every other builder round here would..... D'you mean get on with the build, or get on with re-doing the tree protection thing (which will involve some more cost) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 12 minutes ago, dnoble said: The Hera went along the edge go the tree/root protection area, so profanely only 10-20m of this. The tanalised timber was supposed to be at the bottom Sorry - what was explicitly agreed in the arb plan ..??? Did it include a board or not ..?? Did you submit a design for it ..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnoble Posted December 4, 2018 Author Share Posted December 4, 2018 It did include a board but I basically forgot to put it in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 I just put a bit of sheep fencing a meter away from the trees, didn’t need signing off, no visit done, no probs. It will teach them to respond to your original request in a timely fashion. (Does not help you tho). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 2 hours ago, dnoble said: D'you mean get on with the build, [...] Yes - and wait for the technical advice, or letter from the Enforcement Department. Until then, evidence reasonable caution (in relation to the trees) and J-B-D-I. Pronto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnoble Posted December 12, 2018 Author Share Posted December 12, 2018 Thanks for this After repeated emails and phonecalls the Planning officer has sent this response; Dear Dan, I can’t really help you any more with this as I am not an arboricultural officer. Kind regards,.. Doesn't really shed much light on what happens next! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 1 hour ago, dnoble said: Thanks for this After repeated emails and phonecalls the Planning officer has sent this response; Dear Dan, I can’t really help you any more with this as I am not an arboricultural officer. Kind regards,.. Doesn't really shed much light on what happens next! Thats bollocks (sorry) , they say it’s not good enough but can’t tell you what’s wrong, typical council if you ask me. I think the only thing you can do is what was originally agreed, timber edging, stone off roof protection area, concrete cleaned up. Although this is OTT it is what was accepted originally, send them a copy of the original Email, tell them you are continuing with work on-site now that the condition has been met. (What part of Bristol are you building in, I am originally from Bristol and had to put up with Bristol planners ?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnoble Posted December 12, 2018 Author Share Posted December 12, 2018 I thinks that's what I'll have to do. It remains unclear what the sanctions are for this breach. They haven't even asked me to put it right! It's in South Bristol Bishopsworth area. I'm not going to slag off the excellent planners we are blessed with here. They maybe stalking this forum (he said paranoidly) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Lose the paranoia. Just get on with it. The onus is on them to give you proper guidance. Until then..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triassic Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 I have a tree I’m supposed to protect, I didn’t even bother with a fence around the specified tree, all I did was put up some of the plastic mesh temporary fencing in front of a line of trees including the one to be protected. I’m on my fourth planning guy and none of them have commented on the tree or the fence. I’d just remove any compacted stone and concrete from within the fenced off area and get on with the build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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