Log Cabin To Mobile Home Regulations Scotland

[iSelfBuild]

The time has come for me to kick off our second development site and I now need to make a decision and commitment in terms of whether I build to full regulations or push it through as 'portable' building like @Crofter has done.

 

One bonus which I wasn't aware of is that they are able to 0 rate this for VAT.

 

Does anyone have the regulation handbook for mobile homes in Scotland - I remember a copy floating around on Buildhub?

 

I'm keen to here peoples thoughts on whether I'm making the right choice (vs full regs) here based on the following...

 

• The building plot was relatively cheap, so far stands me at £67,000.00 and it has a shared treatment plant installed ready to tap into so I haven't got that nasty stress and expense to come
• There is planning permission granted for a single story lodge with a 5m ridge height restriction. Most people have dealt with amending the plans by submitting a none material variation to alter the internal layout, size and agree the material finishes. No one has gone for mobile/portable regulations up there but a neighbouring site has got a few log cabins classified as portable homes on there I believe.
• The planning conditions stipulate that the lodges may be used all year round but may not be used as sole or principal permanent residences - this if a further reason why I think I don't think it's totally necessary or will alter the resale value if built to mobile regs. Someone has just tried to have this lifted with no success.
• I don't plan to sell this development, it's purely for rental and ROI purposes so I'm not bothered about it being classed as mobile and the impact on resale.
• There is a fair bit of competition in the local area for holiday rentals, log chalets are really popular with people but very few are round logs and I think people will agree a round log cabin looks so much better and authentic than the rectangular ones you see. Hoping to dress it so that it's very rustic and characterful. So, that along with a beautiful forest setting and a hot tub  should act in our favour. If I go for full regulations you have to hide all the round logs in insulation... what would be the point!

 

 

Few questions... spoke today with the log cabin supplier, he suggests a raft foundation. Would building control even come out and approve this if it was done to mobile regs? They were a pain in the arse making us dig down through solid granite on the other plot - this alone will save me 000's in excavation. I have already levelled the development site and made some low spots up with rock excavated from our other site.

 

Mobile regs has a ceiling height restriction? Would have loved a vaulted space in the living area... do you reckon I can bend the rules here or is it very fixed in place?

 

Fire treatment... I believe the internal logs have to be treated with fire retardant - does anyone know how often this is? I imagine this is pretty costly!  

 

Keen to hear peoples input, thanks.

 

 

Edited November 9, 2018 by iSelfBuild

[ProDave]

the Highland Council's definition of a mobile home is here https://www.highland.gov.uk/downloads/file/1346/bst_018_caravans_and_mobile_homes

I assume it is the same for the whole of Scotland.

 

There is a size limit, and a "ceiling height" limit, but no ridge limit on a "caravan"  Note that in England you are allowed a larger "caravan" then we are in Scotland, something to do with the Caravan act being updated in England but not here.

 

Planning don't need to know if it is a mobile home or a fixed home, they just want the size and what it looks like.

 

If you get planning for something that fits the definition of a "caravan" then it means no building regs for the building. You might need building regs for the waste connection, ask them as you are just laying a pipe to an existing system they may still want to take their fee and inspect it.  @Crofter has a building warrant for his drainage system.

 

Good that the company supplying it will zero rate it.  I have yet to find anyone who has tested a VAT reclaim on a portable building, you won't have a "completion certificate" but it must surely be worth a try to reclaim the VAT on anything you spend on it.

 

As to bending the rules?  I am sure @crofter has a vaulted ceiling.  And the "rules" say it must be transportable by dismantling to 2 sections, but I know a company that makes such portable buildings typically in 4 sections and seem happy that it complies.

 

Another advantage of building a "mobile home" is more flexibility on layout, e,g you won't have to follow all the over zealous "activity space " and "circulation space " requirements.

[iSelfBuild]

9 minutes ago, ProDave said:

the Highland Council's definition of a mobile home is here https://www.highland.gov.uk/downloads/file/1346/bst_018_caravans_and_mobile_homes

 

Top man, interesting that you say about the size being different. I thought that when he said it could be nion 7m wide from his experience - something to do with allowing existing caravans to be externally insulated! Shame that that's not the case in Scotland.

[ProDave]

Yes the size limit is external, so the more insulation you have, the smaller internal space you have.  The size I am sure is based on a typical twin unit traditional static caravan, limited to 12 ft wide for each half, so that would be just over 7 metres.  It looks like in Scotland we are limited to the older definition based on a twin unit of 10ft wide sections which is where we end up with just over 6M maximum width.

[the_r_sole]

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Edited September 26, 2019 by the_r_sole

[iSelfBuild]

Dumfries and Galloway a place called Kippford

[ultramods]

@iSelfBuild   Have you seen the log cabins at eagle brae? The appear to be at the higher end of the log cabin market

 

https://www.facebook.com/EagleBrae/

 

What is the price for a log cabin psm and what are you getting for that?

 

i'm also looking into building holiday rentals, I would be going for a design more like this https://www.thehideawayexperience.co.uk/location/angus-dundee/property/the-lovers.

 

I think they may have come from http://www.fireflywood.co.uk/housedesigns.htm

Edited October 12, 2018 by ultramods

[Ed Davies]

6 hours ago, ultramods said:

lso looking into building holiday rentals, I would be going for a design more like this

Carbon Dynamic also do that sort of style of house.

 

[Crofter]

Sorry I'm a bit late to the party here!

There tends to be some confusion about the status and benefits of portable buildings in terms of regulations, planning etc.

The planners want to know what a building looks like and what it will be used for. They don't care how you actually build it.

Building control determine how you actually build, and if you satisfy their requirements you end up with a completion certificate, which then allows you get your VAT refund and lets you get a mortgage.

 

To be exempt from building regs there are two routes that I am aware of:

- stay below 30m2 and do not include enough facilities to make the building actually habitable (so think garden room, studio, man cave, etc)

- build within the definition of a portable building, which is derived from the Caravan Act 19xx

 

I'm only familiar with Highland Council's definition, which is very simple- 10ft ceiling height, and footprint less than 6x18m, with the building being monolithic or capable of being split into two sections.

 

From my own correspodence with the local BCO, I was told that the building did not need to be capable of being moved off the site (mine would not fit down the single track road)- but if it could be moved around within the site, that is OK. Basically this means that you need to stick to the dimensions given, and make the structure from one or two boxes that can be towed, craned, etc.

 

I ended up building on piers with a suspended floor- a more conventional build on a raft or with multiple sleeper walls would not, IMO, meet the definition as you could not really get underneath it and support it when moving it. A solid floor build would clearly fail because you would leave the floor behind!

 

I'm not sure how Rich's supplier is able to zero rate the build, obviously good news for him if that's the case. I tried to get my own zero rated but it seemed that that would be impossible without a completion certificate, and anyway as it would not be my principle residence I was not eligible anyway. If you are building it as a letting business, you cannot claim back the VAT- unless your letting business is going to be VAT rated itself and charge VAT on all of the letting income, which would clearly be a bad move in the long term.

 

From an engineering POV, I don't actually think a log cabin lends itself at all well to being a portable building. You would be far better off with SIPs.

[Stones]

I've been looking into this recently. The definition (sizes) are specified in the 1960 Act, amended in England but not Scotland.

 

Various stated cases have clarified some of the finer points. Basically, can be built on site and does not have to be moved by road (but must have the capability to be, although not necessarily access to).

 

The main advantage seems to be you would only need a building warrant for the foul drainage. Everything else would be exempt.

 

If built so not within the definition, warrant required, the main issues being the various activity space requirements. 

 

 

[iSelfBuild]

@Crofter Glad you have joined the party  !

 

Here is what I have collated regarding VAT (extracted from HM Customs and Excise VAT Notice 701/20):

 

If you supply a caravan - that is if you:

• sell it; or
• lease it under  long term leasing agreement (in excess of one year) uner which the lessee is free to transport it to a park of their own choosing; or
• loan it; or
• divert it to your own personal use

 

Your supply is zero rated if the caravan is either;

 

• more than 7 metre long; or
• more than 2.3 metre wide 
• ...and it’s manufactured to BS3632:2005

 

I agree a log cabin is terrible for being portable but I never plan to move it. They build these cabin on simple raft foundations with their own insulated floor - not sure if they slightly raise it up as they must have some ventilation below.

 

3 week build time from landing on site, so we can get it weather tight and just play away at fitting the kitchen, bathrooms etc.

 

P.S. @Crofter just checked your cabin out on Air BnB - Stunning! How'd you get away with the vaulted ceilings?

Edited January 7, 2019 by iSelfBuild

[ProDave]

23 minutes ago, iSelfBuild said:

 

We looked at  112m2 model which was £90,000 supplied and erected with all roof coverings and windows etc.

That is £803 per square metre.  Not a huge saving over the £1000 per square metre I am building my house for.  I would want to see a lot more saving than that to justify a cabin rather than a full spec house.

[Crofter]

4 hours ago, iSelfBuild said:

Your supply is zero rated if the caravan is either;

... it’s manufactured to BS3632:2005

[/quote]

What does this requirement entail? I am aware of a couple of BS numbers for caravans and mobile homes but I concluded that these only applied to use in a caravan park or as a touring van.

[Crofter]

4 hours ago, ProDave said:

That is £803 per square metre.  Not a huge saving over the £1000 per square metre I am building my house for.  I would want to see a lot more saving than that to justify a cabin rather than a full spec house.

 

My build came to about £1000/m2 with three years of DIY labour. So if I costed in my time at say £20k a year, my build actually cost £2300/m2. I would say getting a house built for you by someone else at under £1000/m2 is pretty good going.

 

It's hard to build small houses down to a same price per m2 as a bigger house. Lots of fixed costs, or at least costs that become disproportionately large when the house is small. Fees, services, access, appliances, barely scale at all. 

[Ed Davies]

Also, double the area and you only increase the wall lengths by 41% (square root of the area multiplier). And the thickness of insulation needed for a given heating load per m² of floor increases.

[iSelfBuild]

On 14/10/2018 at 19:16, Crofter said:

 

My build came to about £1000/m2 with three years of DIY labour. So if I costed in my time at say £20k a year, my build actually cost £2300/m2. I would say getting a house built for you by someone else at under £1000/m2 is pretty good going.

 

It's hard to build small houses down to a same price per m2 as a bigger house. Lots of fixed costs, or at least costs that become disproportionately large when the house is small. Fees, services, access, appliances, barely scale at all. 

 

Agreed, I could stick frame it all out on site but I have to value my time into this (and the moaning from my misses being away from home lol) and I wouldn't be going for it at £90k for 112m2 anyway, would be tempted with the low end of £70k by simplifying the spec. At £90k with the  electrics, heating, bathrooms, kitchen and ground works etc it would push it way over budget. I'll be happy to bring it all in finished at £90k for about 120m2 (excluding drainage and the land purchase) - I might be dreaming at that though. Did you have a breakdown on costs for your place?

Edited October 15, 2018 by iSelfBuild

[Crofter]

8 hours ago, iSelfBuild said:

 

Agreed, I could stick frame it all out on site but I have to value my time into this (and the moaning from my misses being away from home lol) and I wouldn't be going for it at £90k for 112m2 anyway, would be tempted with the low end of £70k by simplifying the spec. At £90k with the  electrics, heating, bathrooms, kitchen and ground works etc it would push it way over budget. I'll be happy to bring it all in finished at £90k for about 120m2 (excluding drainage and the land purchase) - I might be dreaming at that though. Did you have a breakdown on costs for your place?

 

I don't have the full breakdown as it's on my old laptop, but rough figures from memory are:

- Fees £1200 (planning, building warrant, road crossing, road opening)

- Access £5000 (plant hire and several lorry loads of stone)

- Drainage £6500 (Puraflo system, septic tank, soakaway)

- Services £3000 (water and e;ectricity- no phone line)

- Foundations £700

- Structural timber work £4000 (cost to build the shell inc sheathing on walls and roof)

- Roofing £1200 (corrugated iron)

- Cladding £1000 (larch)

- Windows £4500 (3G aluclad)

- Bathroom £800

- Kitchen £2000

 

That lot adds up to about £30k- there was another £10k on the stuff I can't remember off hand, such as plumbing, wiring, plasterboard, joinery, flooring.

I've not included the furniture or furnishings.

 

If the site had been easier to develop, with services already in place, then the project would have cost under £600/m2

[iSelfBuild]

Oh dear, I already know what's going to happen and my misses isn't going to like it. Roll on building it myself lol.

[iSelfBuild]

On 13/10/2018 at 17:54, Stones said:

I've been looking into this recently. The definition (sizes) are specified in the 1960 Act, amended in England but not Scotland.

 

Various stated cases have clarified some of the finer points. Basically, can be built on site and does not have to be moved by road (but must have the capability to be, although not necessarily access to).

 

The main advantage seems to be you would only need a building warrant for the foul drainage. Everything else would be exempt.

 

If built so not within the definition, warrant required, the main issues being the various activity space requirements. 

 

 

Have you managed to identify where the width is measured from? Internal walls, external walls, corners of log overlaps (in this case 200mm each side) or gutters etc?

 

It's so ambiguous!

 

I had a meeting with planning, they don't know or give a monkeys as long as the material finishes pass their approval.

 

Also I'll probably have it made in one section with no up in down the centre line. This makes it techichally too wide for road transport or will that not matter?

[Crofter]

It's not planning you need to speak to, it's building control.

You don't need the building to break apart- just if it does, it must be in no more than two sections.

According to my LA BCO, it needn't be road transportable either- movable around its own site is sufficient. In fact according to the case law, it can be boxed into a tight spot where no crane could ever access it, and still count as a portable building. The quality of being portable is inherent to the building itself and not dependent on its surroundings.

 

Measurements, to the best of my knowledge, are from the outside face of the exterior walls, and do not count gutters. I'm not 100% sure whether a soffet overhang counts though.

[Stones]

@iSelfBuild What we are defining is a caravan, rather than a portable or temporary building (which can be treated differently under building regs)

 

“A structure designed or adapted for human habitation which:
a) Is composed of not more than two sections separately constructed and designed to be assembled on a site by means of bolts, clamps or other devices; and
b) Is, when assembled, physically capable of being moved by road from one place to another (whether by being towed, or by being transported on a motor vehicle or trailer), shall not be treated as not being (or not having been) a caravan within the meaning of Part 1 of the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960 by reason only that it cannot lawfully be moved on a highway when assembled.”

 

Measurements are to the best of my knowledge external, with the exception of height being measured internally.

 

You may wish to reconsider the splitting of your units so they can be easily transported, i.e. do not require escort vehicle due to excessive width, as that can get very expensive, very quickly.

[iSelfBuild]

4 hours ago, Stones said:

@iSelfBuild What we are defining is a caravan, rather than a portable or temporary building (which can be treated differently under building regs)

 

“A structure designed or adapted for human habitation which:
a) Is composed of not more than two sections separately constructed and designed to be assembled on a site by means of bolts, clamps or other devices; and
b) Is, when assembled, physically capable of being moved by road from one place to another (whether by being towed, or by being transported on a motor vehicle or trailer), shall not be treated as not being (or not having been) a caravan within the meaning of Part 1 of the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960 by reason only that it cannot lawfully be moved on a highway when assembled.”

 

Measurements are to the best of my knowledge external, with the exception of height being measured internally.

 

You may wish to reconsider the splitting of your units so they can be easily transported, i.e. do not require escort vehicle due to excessive width, as that can get very expensive, very quickly.

I never plan to move the unit though and it will all be built on site so it seems an added expense unless it simplifies things for the manufacturers.