newhome Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 7 minutes ago, PeterW said: My Dymo senses are itching at the moment with the lack of labeling ..... That reminds me - I still have the one borrowed from work in my plant room . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Nickfromwales said: Where in this lovely warm country are you ? Not as far as Scotland 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 There's a requirement in the wiring regs to ensure circuits are adequately identified. It's an issue that should be flagged during an inspection and test, and has been for years (although it's something often ignored). If I was inspecting a system that didn't have labels or an adequate description of the installation that was clear enough to inform me of the details of each circuit I'd mark it down as a C3 (Improvement Required). Bearing in mind that every domestic electrical installation should be inspected and tested at least every ten years (another thing that's very widely ignored) and that an inspection and test is a hell of a lot easier if things are properly labelled and that either the original data from the installation tests, or the previous EICR (Electrical Installation Condition Report) is available (and it makes the EICR cheaper, as it takes less time), then there's every reason to make sure that documents are retained and everything is properly labelled. It's worth noting that the guidance for conducting an EICR is that there should be minimal exposure to live parts. This means that if there is an existing description of the installation, with the results of the tests that were conducted, then many of the EICR tests can be conducted with least disturbance to the installation, provided that an inspection of the installation doesn't give rise to concern. Mind you, I bet that 90%+ of domestic electrical installations rarely get any inspections at all. SWMBO has always been a bit annoyed with me for spending a couple of hours every few years checking our electrical installation. My obsession with inspection and testing comes from having seen some pretty grim installations in houses we've bought over the years. Arguably, this has made me go a bit OTT with our new build, with an all-RCBO CU, cables that are generally one size up from what's just about OK and labels everywhere. My workshop even has E stop buttons and contactors controlling the two 20 A radials that supply the main power circuits, so banging a button kills all the power (but not the lights) if something goes awry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 17 minutes ago, JSHarris said: There's a requirement in the wiring regs to ensure circuits are adequately identified. It's an issue that should be flagged during an inspection and test, and has been for years (although it's something often ignored). If I was inspecting a system that didn't have labels or an adequate description of the installation that was clear enough to inform me of the details of each circuit I'd mark it down as a C3 (Improvement Required). Every circuit is identified in the CU here, but none of the heating controls or switches were labelled so there was no way of telling what does what like Lizzie's system. It's ok now because @PeterW and his labeling fetish addressed that issue. There is one connection to the CU that is not labeled however as the spark that did it didn't put a label in the CU. I think it does the EV charge point, or something in the garage anyway. Guess I could switch it off one day and have a look see what doesn't work with it off. Would have been useful if he had labeled the damn thing however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 46 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: Where in this lovely warm country are you ? Christ, she best have shares in a brewery if that ends up happening! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 7 minutes ago, Onoff said: Christ, she best have shares in a brewery if that ends up happening! Will be more Stratford Gold than McEwan's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 12 minutes ago, newhome said: Every circuit is identified in the CU here, but none of the heating controls or switches were labelled so there was no way of telling what does what like Lizzie's system. It's ok now because @PeterW and his labeling fetish addressed that issue. There is one connection to the CU that is not labeled however as the spark that did it didn't put a label in the CU. I think it does the EV charge point, or something in the garage anyway. Guess I could switch it off one day and have a look see what doesn't work with it off. Would have been useful if he had labeled the damn thing however. It's not just in the CU that labels are a requirement, they are required wherever there could be doubt as to what a switched circuit controls, or there needs to be a diagram/adequate description located close to the CU or distribution board such that anyone looking at the system can understand how it's wired. Apart from being something that saves time (and so should save cost) for any subsequent inspection and test, it also makes it a lot easier to resolve the sort of issues that @lizzie is now, unfortunately, experiencing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 10 minutes ago, JSHarris said: It's not just in the CU that labels are a requirement, they are required wherever there could be doubt as to what a switched circuit controls, or there needs to be a diagram/adequate description located close to the CU or distribution board such that anyone looking at the system can understand how it's wired. Apart from being something that saves time (and so should save cost) for any subsequent inspection and test, it also makes it a lot easier to resolve the sort of issues that @lizzie is now, unfortunately, experiencing. I guess it depends what you term as 'doubt'. With my hubby there telling the sparky who did the EIC what the controls did I guess it wasn't that much of an issue if they weren't labeled but without someone with that knowledge there were a few that were a mystery. There is still one that is a mystery. I think it's something to do with the MVHR. Would the summer bypass be on a normal switch? It doesn't turn the whole thing off. I can't seem to do that unless I switch of off at the CU. On the EIC the only mention of labeling was a C3 that said 'there are no 400v labels in the boiler cupboard'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 The regs are pretty clear with regard to what's required, and have been for decades. When I used to teach apprentices decades ago, switches and FCUs were often supplied with engraved labels on the front, describing the circuit that they controlled (something like "immersion" or "heater"). This is something that has "gone out of fashion", but the requirement to identify circuits and switches where it's not obvious (and light switches and switches in outlets are considered obvious) has existed for as long as I can remember. What's happened is that the economics of supplying so many variations of the same basic switch has meant that manufacturers have saved costs by removing the built-in labels, with the possible exception of cooker switches. This has switched responsibility to the installer, and there are far too many monkey's out there who have never bothered to read and understand the regs - read through any of the electricians forums and you'll find a LOT of electricians asking really basic questions where they should have already known the answers as a part of their training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizzie Posted September 21, 2018 Author Share Posted September 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Nickfromwales said: Where in this lovely warm country are you ? about 2 hours from you @Nickfromwales I look west towards the Malverns and on a good day I see the Black Mountains and ‘home’ behind...... still in exile on the warwks worcs border not far from Stratford upon Avon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 Don't mention the black mountains, it will get him excited!!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 10 hours ago, Declan52 said: Don't mention the black mountains, it will get him excited!!! Tossa ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 1 minute ago, Nickfromwales said: Tossa ? Cough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizzie Posted October 1, 2018 Author Share Posted October 1, 2018 Update...electrician is coming tomorrow to go through so I can label switches in the plant room..........he still maintains the switch in the corner is immersion only, we know it switches off the motorised valves....could be an interesting visit. UFH MVHR installer coming next week to go through what all the bits are in the plant room, show me how it all works and change the trap on the MVHR. Fingers crossed the plant mysteries will soon be solved. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyoxon Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 Just read this whole post and there’s no ending what happened when the electrician turned up? I know this was a couple of years ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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