My underfloor heating

[newhome]

13 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Turn all the stats down to zero and wait 10 mins, then turn one up to max.

 

If they are like mine (Lizzie’s are newer I know) I can only turn them down to the frost setting. Mine is set to 10. To get them ‘off’ quickly I just have to put them on the frost setting. 

[Nickfromwales]

3 minutes ago, newhome said:

 

If they are like mine (Lizzie’s are newer I know) I can only turn them down to the frost setting. Mine is set to 10. To get them ‘off’ quickly I just have to put them on the frost setting. 

Yup. Whichever value is the lowest. Frost setting should be a definable parameter so can be different but is typically 7oC. 

[Nickfromwales]

15 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

 

I have these, which are probably the devil's spawn, but I just have them all set high enough to be out of the loop.

 

We run it as essentially a single zone, and if I want a room excluded I just turn it right down.

 

Ferdinand

 

So basically you use them as switches and rely on an unified flow temp  

[Ferdinand]

1 hour ago, Nickfromwales said:

So basically you use them as switches and rely on an unified flow temp  

Yep.

[lizzie]

OK thanks...confused.com here now but I will give it a whirl on @Nickfromwales suggestions. Like @newhome frost setting is lowest I can go.

 

I think the floor sensors were suggested by installer as he said that with high insulated house and mvhr floor would not kick in on air temp alone......thats as best I can recall it.

 

Here is a pdf of what I think is the schematic as suggested by @PeterW

 

The whole thing is run from a Vaillant Eco tech mains gas boiler.

 

That chart is is clever @AliG presumably I will have the same somewhere, will look for it

 

Thank you all for the input - may take me a while to work through it all and come back with results.

 

 

ufh_.pdf

[PeterW]

Hmmm....

 

45c flow temp ..??!! That’s how they are getting the heat in at 200mm centres but that is way too hot for a passive build. 

 

Sounds like the flow at the manifold is not set correctly either as there are some weird flow settings too. 

 

Has the installer been back to you ..??

 

edited to add : is there a buffer in this lot or not..? Is it flow from the boiler straight to the manifolds ..??

[lizzie]

@PeterW nothing from installer yet.  

 

I have no idea on buffer - where would I look for that please?

[PeterW]

Plant room..! Time for some photos I think..!

[lizzie]

@PeterWAre any of these any good, I have no idea what I am looking for sorry!

 

 

 

[Nickfromwales]

No buffer tank there, it would be another cylinder around 1/3 of the size of the hot water tank. 

The boiler will do the job, but a buffer would have taken a lot of short cycling out of the duty of the boiler. At the moment the boiler will be permanently ‘lit’ and just occasionally ramping up before going into tick-over, and will repeat that 24/7 when your asking for heating via any of the controls. 

Order of events should be;

 

boiler fires flat out and heats the buffer tank.

 

Boiler goes off. 

 

Ufh pumps draw small amounts of heat off as required 

 

tank eventually cools down and it’s stat calls for a top up from the boiler

 

back to the top and repeat. 

 

All the the time the buffer is satisfied the boiler fan / pump / gas valve etc is sat idle.  

Which model exactly is it I’ll have a look at the MIs later. 

[PeterW]

@lizzie when the installer rocks up you can ask him why this switch is off

 

[ProDave]

5 hours ago, PeterW said:

@lizzie when the installer rocks up you can ask him why this switch is off

 

 

OR turn it on now and see if things start working.

[newhome]

12 hours ago, PeterW said:

when the installer rocks up you can ask him why this switch is off

 

Immersion? 

[lizzie]

Hi Guys - internet now restored! Back to questions/answers. Sorry for delay.

 

@PeterW that switch is immersion so I am told.  It was on for months, I asked electrician what it was (by text and photo - quickest way) in case it was contributing to large bills and he replied it was immersion so switched it off a few weeks ago.

 

@Nickfromwales I have two small tanks and a giant hot water tank. Not sure either of these is related to heating though.

 

I have not been able to get at manifolds until now as carpenter has been here building cupboards to hide them in my bedroom.  I left the floor in the en suite set to 28 before I went out at 10AM just back and floor still showing 24 on stat which is where it was before I went out its not moved at all.  The blue bit on the actuator is up but all pipes are cold.

 

The other manifold in the plant room - all pipes are very hot no lights on other than ther power light and there has been no call for heat in any of those zones this morning so I cant understand why all is so hot.

 

Boiler shows radiator symbol at 65 and is firing.  Guess that is for bathroom floor even though it is not any warmer than it was 6 hours ago.

 

On bedroom manifolds I have TRV set to 50degrees  (72) and flow and return dials are even at 72 each but stat for temp not moved at all since I left.

 

Have now put bedroom floor on to see if that helps in case of fault on bathroom zone.  Little blue bit is up on actuator but guess will have to wait a while to see if any warmh appears on floor.

 

Can't understand plant room stuff being red hot when nothing is on calling for heat.

 

I have a quieter day at home tomorrow so will try @Nickfromwales suggestions on turning it all on and off etc.

 

The boiler is a Vailiant Ecofit Pure 418 Regular boiler.  I have a Vailiant Unistor 250l unvented hot water tank and one of the small tanks is called Altenic reflex 18L heating expansion vessel. Thats the smaller lower down tank with a mesh type metal pipe in the photo.  Both small tanks are cold.  The bigger one seems to go the hot water tank the smaller one seems to connect to the main via that flexible metal pipe and there is a copper pipe going into the wall.  The small one also has a pressure gauge. I have no problem with hot water it is hot and plentiful  I only have water heating for 2 hours a day in the morning and that is more than enough for us.

 

I did e-mail installer again yesterday but as yet no response, its nigh on impossible to get him on the phone but his wife usually picks up the e-mails so I live in hope!

Edited September 18, 2018 by lizzie

[newhome]

Blimey Lizzie yours is sounding like mine! Hot pipes to manifold with everything on frost setting, then no heat making it to the rooms when they called for heat. 

 

How did you get the installer? Via Robbens? If so complain through them? 

 

 

[lizzie]

8 minutes ago, newhome said:

Blimey Lizzie yours is sounding like mine! Hot pipes to manifold with everything on frost setting, then no heat making it to the rooms when they called for heat. 

 

How did you get the installer? Via Robbens? If so complain through them? 

 

 

Oh dear, I recall  yours was an absolute nightmare....yes he was suggested by Robbens and he seemed very competent....to someone who knows absolutely nothing about plumbing!

[newhome]

4 minutes ago, lizzie said:

Oh dear, I recall  yours was an absolute nightmare....yes he was suggested by Robbens and he seemed very competent....to someone who knows absolutely nothing about plumbing!

 

I’m sure yours won’t be as sick as mine. Call Robbens and ask them for advice re their system as their suggested installer won’t get in touch. 

[newhome]

And being competent means naff all if they won’t come back and fix stuff! 

[ProDave]

1 hour ago, lizzie said:

 

@Nickfromwales I have two small tanks and a giant hot water tank. Not sure either of these is related to heating though.

 

I have not been able to get at manifolds until now as carpenter has been here building cupboards to hide them in my bedroom.  I left the floor in the en suite set to 28 before I went out at 10AM just back and floor still showing 24 on stat which is where it was before I went out its not moved at all.  The blue bit on the actuator is up but all pipes are cold.

 

The other manifold in the plant room - all pipes are very hot no lights on other than ther power light and there has been no call for heat in any of those zones this morning so I cant understand why all is so hot.

 

Boiler shows radiator symbol at 65 and is firing.  Guess that is for bathroom floor even though it is not any warmer than it was 6 hours ago.

 

On bedroom manifolds I have TRV set to 50degrees  (72) and flow and return dials are even at 72 each but stat for temp not moved at all since I left.

 

Have now put bedroom floor on to see if that helps in case of fault on bathroom zone.  Little blue bit is up on actuator but guess will have to wait a while to see if any warmh appears on floor.

 

Can't understand plant room stuff being red hot when nothing is on calling for heat.

 

Those 2 small "tanks" are expansion vessels.

 

This system is starting to sound like one I had to sort out a few years ago.  It was a new build, wired by someone else and it had never worked properly with some rooms freezing and some rooms roasting.

 

The basic issue was all the room thermostats were controlling a different room to where they were, it had been set up wrong.

 

To test that theory, go and turn ALL rooms up to maximum and see if any / all get hot.

[newhome]

It sounds like it was heating ok earlier in the year, albeit when it was boiling hot. Do you remember what you did to stop it working? Was it just resetting the stats or something else? Or did the builders switch it off?

 

When you are setting the stat to 28 degrees are you using the app or the stat? Is the flame coming on (and staying on) the room stat whilst it's set to 28 degrees? Can you take pics of what you are doing to set the stat and the settings it has? So temps for the high / low periods for example. Mine has 4 time periods on a 5 / 2 week / weekend basis. During those times it goes from a higher back to a lower temperature etc. Is yours like that? My system is older but I imagine yours will be similar? Mine will set all the way up to 35 degrees. Could you try putting the stat to max? 

 

 

[newhome]

So my stat settings (room is 20 degrees at the mo with no heating having been on for months so don’t need it on yet). Temps and times still set as before however. 

 

 

 

These are the temp settings for weekdays, so 20 degrees at 5.30

 

 

Then from 7am it will only come on again if it drops below 18 

 

 

At 17.00 it pushes back up to 20 degrees ready for my return home

 

 

Then drops back to 18 at 22.00 for overnight

 

 

 

 

[Nickfromwales]

47 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Those 2 small "tanks" are expansion vessels.

 

This system is starting to sound like one I had to sort out a few years ago.  It was a new build, wired by someone else and it had never worked properly with some rooms freezing and some rooms roasting.

 

The basic issue was all the room thermostats were controlling a different room to where they were, it had been set up wrong.

 

To test that theory, go and turn ALL rooms up to maximum and see if any / all get hot.

Already suggested the dead test   

[lizzie]

I am devoting tomorrow to testing will report back. Thank you all.

[PeterW]

4 hours ago, newhome said:

So my stat settings (room is 20 degrees at the mo with no heating having been on for months so don’t need it on yet). Temps and times still set as before however. 

 

 

 

These are the temp settings for weekdays, so 20 degrees at 5.30

 

 

Then from 7am it will only come on again if it drops below 18 

 

 

At 17.00 it pushes back up to 20 degrees ready for my return home

 

 

Then drops back to 18 at 22.00 for overnight

 

 

 

 

 

@newhome A picture of beauty that they actually work ..!!! 

 

@lizzie tbh if the installer is showing signs of not returning soon, I would advise Robbens and suggest their system isn’t fit for purpose either as they can’t dodge this one.   

 

And that pipework is lovely - I’d hate for me and @Nickfromwales to have to come over and turn it into a scrap pile .....

[newhome]

3 minutes ago, PeterW said:

 

@newhome A picture of beauty that they actually work ..!!! 

 

 

Also a miracle that I know how to work them now!