epsilonGreedy Posted July 17, 2018 Author Share Posted July 17, 2018 (edited) 23 minutes ago, PeterW said: Have you actually priced up - or checked availability of Celcon HS Foundation Blocks ..?? H+H Celcon HI-7 Aerated Concrete Block 440mm x 215mm x 300mm 7.3N Pack 30 £6.17 EA Not yet, I was first trying to ascertain what the technical options are. From other posts above I get the impression that the Stowel foundation blocks arrive at a painful cost. The manufacturer has probably identified a market niche for those who want trench block convenience but none of that bubble filled rubbish and priced accordingly. I am coming to the conclusion I may as well get a large drop of regular dense concrete blocks on site because whatever the final detail of the footing blockwork they will end up in the beam & block floor. Edited July 17, 2018 by epsilonGreedy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 23 minutes ago, PeterW said: Have you actually priced up - or checked availability of Celcon HS Foundation Blocks ..?? H+H Celcon HI-7 Aerated Concrete Block 440mm x 215mm x 300mm 7.3N Pack 30 £6.17 EA Availabilty - to order (2-4 weeks) That’s straight off my trade pricing page with one of the big BMs Solid Dense 7.3N Concrete Block 100mm Pack 100 £0.87 EA Availabilty - in stock So that’s available on site on Thursday. Pays your money, takes your choice. £6.17 a block!! Are you English mad in the head to even consider paying that. Don't even think about paying that kind of silly money for something that you will bury in the ground and never see again. If you can't source the 300mm block mentioned above just buy in bog standard 7n 440*215*100mm block. Build them 315mm wide. That will be two blocks on their flat and another on it's edge beside it. The 300mm block are used because they are handy to throw about and lay and will have very little waste. If you can't get them then do as above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 is 87p good over there for a 4" block? Ouch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triassic Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 Cheapest I can find is 81p per block Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 6 minutes ago, dpmiller said: is 87p good over there for a 4" block? Ouch. What are you paying now. Mine where 33p 5 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 Northstone quote me 36p per, full loads delivered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 I used to pay 40p in 1995. 87p plus vat now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted July 18, 2018 Author Share Posted July 18, 2018 11 hours ago, Declan52 said: If you can't source the 300mm block mentioned above just buy in bog standard 7n 440*215*100mm block. Build them 315mm wide. That will be two blocks on their flat and another on it's edge beside it. I am coming around to your thinking here but double checking the maths... 3 x £0.87 + 3 x £1.10 (labour) + mortar for three blocks = About the same as a fancy Celcon trench block. Is my costing correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 17 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said: I am coming around to your thinking here but double checking the maths... 3 x £0.87 + 3 x £1.10 (labour) + mortar for three blocks = About the same as a fancy Celcon trench block. Is my costing correct? Not in my book it’s not whats the £1.10 labour is that per block, if that’s the case I’m going to dust of my trowel ive got 660 blocks in my footings and will be expecting it to take under a day with 2 of us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted July 18, 2018 Author Share Posted July 18, 2018 (edited) Post Deleted - The forum software did something strange and copied an earlier post of mine. Edited July 18, 2018 by epsilonGreedy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted July 18, 2018 Author Share Posted July 18, 2018 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said: Not in my book it’s not whats the £1.10 labour is that per block, if that’s the case I’m going to dust of my trowel Yes per block. I got an estimate for my house from damp to wall plate, 50p per facing brick and £1.30 per block. In the foundation calc I discounted the per block rate to reflect no wall ties and the lower quality if finish below ground. Conversely there is leveling out and laying 18kg blocks at ankle height cannot be fun after the first 20. 54 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said: ive got 660 blocks in my footings and will be expecting it to take under a day with 2 of us. A search here indicates 200 to 300 blocks a day for a 1+1 team. Edited July 18, 2018 by epsilonGreedy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brickie Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 I have to say that,so long as the quality is decent,you will have had an absolute result on those prices. I see posts on social media for jobs in the North East,North West & even Scotland exceeding those rates,and that’s from a Subbie who’s taking a cut and would be with forklift/crane on site with silo mortar & horizontal loading only (I.e. no ladder work.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brickie Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 3 hours ago, Brickie said: posts on social media for jobs in the North East,North West & even Scotland exceeding those rates Few examples- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 On 17/07/2018 at 07:28, Russell griffiths said: Can you not lay one flat and one stood upright to make up your width. And @dpmiller& @Declan52 I have dry assembled the following footing block build up that is the best equivalent of my building control diagram shown in the first post. Is my 3-block substitution for the trench block similar to what you are intending/have done? The buff/red brick boundary represents the average external ground level around the perimeter of the house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Yup, that's how my guy has handled it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 6 hours ago, epsilonGreedy said: And @dpmiller& @Declan52 I have dry assembled the following footing block build up that is the best equivalent of my building control diagram shown in the first post. Is my 3-block substitution for the trench block similar to what you are intending/have done? The buff/red brick boundary represents the average external ground level around the perimeter of the house. Yeah the 3 blocks when built will look like that Is there a specific reason for building 2 course of brick under what I assume is your beams?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 External DPC to internal FFL will be a challenge based on that as you've got a minimum of 195mm to add to your build up internally. I'd drop the first outside block on flat and come up again with a block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) 46 minutes ago, PeterW said: External DPC to internal FFL will be a challenge based on that as you've got a minimum of 195mm to add to your build up internally. I'd drop the first outside block on flat and come up again with a block. Will the beams not be 150mm so if they are sitting on the top of them 2 courses of concrete bricks they will match the outside first 2 red bricks. If you build a soap bar, see link below, between the beams then you can start of with your blocks on the inside. Put the dpc on top of the first course of block and on the out side skin it will be on top of another brick in the pic. The blue lines would be the dpc with an extra layer under the beams. https://stowellconcrete.co.uk/concrete-soap-bar-blocks/ The 150mm high blocks. Edited July 19, 2018 by Declan52 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Agree @Declan52 but wouldn’t that put DPC 375mm above ground level so either you have to do a depression in it to get doors in, or some pretty big ramps to meet Part M..! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 34 minutes ago, PeterW said: Agree @Declan52 but wouldn’t that put DPC 375mm above ground level so either you have to do a depression in it to get doors in, or some pretty big ramps to meet Part M..! Take the 2 course of brick out then it's only 225mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, Declan52 said: Yeah the 3 blocks when built will look like that Is there a specific reason for building 2 course of brick under what I assume is your beams?? In the photo the two courses of inner wall bricks are supporting the edge block of the horizontal floor. The beams would be running parallel with the portion of the footing wall shown, the diagram I posted with the opening thread post show the position and height of the first beam in from the wall. (Edit: My building advisor who is a trad solid floor man did wonder if beam/floor flex might move this first edge block and thus cause it to leverage the block wall above.). The block heights of the adjacent wall supporting the beam ends is more interesting. If a beam protrudes 55mm below into the void then instead of two regular 65mm coursing raising 150mm to the first horizontal floor block there is now a 95mm gap to the bottom of the beam, I guess this is where those 40mm coursing slips are used. Edited July 19, 2018 by epsilonGreedy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 7 hours ago, PeterW said: External DPC to internal FFL will be a challenge based on that as you've got a minimum of 195mm to add to your build up internally. I'd drop the first outside block on flat and come up again with a block. I must be overlooking something here, would 120mm of insulation + 75mm of screed make the FFL up perfectly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 195mm is pretty much the minimum but working from your comment about the buff bricks, you have 5 courses to DPC which is 375mm. Given the threshold on doors is usually set at DPC then you have a significant step down inside of nearly 180mm with your current build up. This needs drawing out properly - what’s on your AT plans..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 6 hours ago, Declan52 said: Will the beams not be 150mm so if they are sitting on the top of them 2 courses of concrete bricks they will match the outside first 2 red bricks. If you build a soap bar, see link below, between the beams then you can start of with your blocks on the inside. Put the dpc on top of the first course of block and on the out side skin it will be on top of another brick in the pic. The blue lines would be the dpc with an extra layer under the beams. https://stowellconcrete.co.uk/concrete-soap-bar-blocks/ The 150mm high blocks. Soapbar blocks = a top tip. Thankyou. I think I will build up an extra wall section for the adjacent wall supporting the beams to save confusion. I could go all the way and include a demo beam offcut of say 500mm if I could pick up an offcut somewhere. I had been thinking that the dpc shown on my original BC diagram could not prevent damp raising into the floor infill blocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) You could also start of with a course of soap bars and then you put your dpc on top of these then build away in block. This would bring your height down a further 75mm so your dpc would be under the brick I expertly drew in!! In your pic what red brick do you reckon will be your height of your pathway around your house. The beams sit on dpc so stops damp getting to the beams. What depth of insulation and concrete is going on top of the beams. Edited July 19, 2018 by Declan52 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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