Help with kitchen renovation/ 1st house.

[Onoff]

@zoothorn, I'm going to have to trawl back through the thread but was one of those green/yellow wires you didn't reconnect anywhere a bit thicker than the others and did it go to just above the incoming mains water stop cock?

 

Edit: In this photo:

 

 

The green/yellow just above the horizontal grey waste pipe that connects under the stop cock, is that connection still in place? It looks as best as I can tell thicker than the others.

Edited September 7, 2018 by Onoff

[zoothorn]

@onoff Hi there- yes indeed it is connected/ I didnt need to move this one.. thicker.. terminates under stopcock.

 

Other 2 thinner, one each to start of copper just infront of ISO's. Now I have placcy h2s0's connecting to the ISO's, I dont have the space I had before to connect.. a tricky affair now, will have to go around the ISO brass valves. If I -have- to put them back on.

[zoothorn]

@PeterW on the worktop spiel it says to leve a 5mm gap, important re expansion/ swell movement over time. Especially important I leave this re. my moist atmosphere so will be doing so. Can you remind me Peter what I'm using to stick &/ or seal the worktop to the wall.. with this 5mm gap in mind-?

 

Top2 has already started to bow 'up' after I router cut it flush (hopefully tmrw if I can get cabinets 3,4 level relative to the other sink cabs, & fixed in). Alarming, & will make the jointing to the sink top1 an even trickier job. I've slapped somAA Osmo on underside & back edge.

 

And can you remind me what I'm using to stick, &/or seal the sink onto the worktop-?

 

thanks zoot

[PeterW]

Wood expands along its length so as long as you don’t trap both ends it will be fine. 

 

I would seal the edge / end back to the wall with clear silicone. I don’t use anything under units - just lots of 30mm screws through the frames and into the timber. 

 

A couple  of clamps or heavy weights on top will flatten out any bowing before you screw it down. 

[zoothorn]

10 hours ago, PeterW said:

 I don’t use anything under units - just lots of 30mm screws through the frames and into the timber. 

 

But the frames are under the top, no-? not quite on board with your not using anything under units

 

I'm lucky as today, very wet indeed, the bow seems to have flattened out! odd.. maybe its the Osmo oil.

 

[zoothorn]

iIm getting myself in another pickle here. Bought some "sticks like a sh*t" adhesive in screwfix last week (asked chap, said worktop etc/ recommended),  todayreturned it for clear silicone after Peter's info ^. I had the Dow 781 stuff in mind on the screwfix site before > went in, couldn't fkn find it in catalogue. So got 785 'N' but with "sanitary" on. Is this correct, totally wrong? I don't know my arse from my elbow here.

[PeterW]

Clear sanitary sealant is fine as it just means it has a biocide in it. 

 

And yes -just screws and nothing else ..!!

 

You can see the joint on this one from below and above - screws into the frame in top right of the picture. These are 4x30mm so even if you sink them into the frame it won’t pierce the top. Same with the 12mm ply as joint blocks. 

 

 

 

[zoothorn]

Peter, sorry I'm still confused as to your 'not using anything under units, but screws & nothing else'. Its just the way with the www & not being able to speak in person (what did you mean by  "not using anything under units"??

 

I can see one ply block which seems to span a join with the white stuff. But can you tell me what the other block is for, the smaller one?

 

At the moment I'm having huge difficulties with these tops to join. Ive just spent the day getting the 3rd & 4th units in, & as best I can possibly do regarding level, & xyz relative to the sink tops. A hell of a job. Then got the sink into the top- very tricky this with sti=upid barckets that dont fot properly pulling down onto the cabinet walls. A nightmare day tbh. This top is yet to be fixed into the cabinet frame &/or the wall as I'm very concerned with the joining: Ive biscuit rebated 3x in each face. But the shorter top, even putting a huge weight on the thing to flatten in order to get cutter at its face.. was still pulling up 1-2mm. So I had no choice but cut like so. Now, getting them to join I think will be nigh on impossible: the shorter one I had to cut 2/3rds (1/3rd removed), is still bowing up badly meaning offering them together is a dogs dinner.. big disappointmernt after so much massively careful prep work.

[zoothorn]

Ive gone back over the info re. joining, & clamping is mentioned.. &/ or the screw plates understood once the joint is made, but how do I try & pull the bowed top into line for the biscuits to meet? i don't think its possible, is it? I just can't think of anything to help: I can't screw from under ^ up to pull it down, as then I can't move the two tops together. The two top together are 5mm difference one end.

 

I think the only way is to buy a new top tbh.. but no Homebase anywhere near me/ a 120m drive to p/u. Or 2nd idea is to somehow join 5mm proud & sand the fk out of it.. but the work involved to do so I can barely think of, plus the join will have a 'step' right at the main junction/ seen.

 

Anyone know if there's any way to force this hardwood bow out??

[newhome]

Can you post a photo so that people can see what the issue is?

[zoothorn]

Hi newhome- will do tmrw. But issue is simply I have a warp/ bow in the top. IE if I put a straight edge across the worktop2 width I have 5mm gap in middle. So its concave. Trying to biscuit joint the end of this, to the top1 (sink worktop) side.. I'd say isn't possible (unless massive force/ a huge weight is applied which I just don't have). Trying to do a 5mm offset with 3/4" softwood is hard enough.. but 3x this width, hardwood?

[newhome]

Needs @PeterW to advise. 

[PeterW]

5mm bow sounds a lot - is it

really that much..??

 

you could temporarily pull it down using screws from the cabinet below and then unscrew it and fit the biscuits. Would work to an extent I expect. 

 

Second block in on the picture at the back is because this is a 3 way join - had to extend the first piece to 2.5m before creating the join. No biscuits in the L join, just in the end. 

 

Acacia behaves as both a softwood and a hardwood - it will sand back with a DA using 60 grit pretty quickly if you need to level it off. Don’t be afraid to force it into shape for a day or two before fixing it into its final position 

[Onoff]

2 hours ago, zoothorn said:

Hi newhome- will do tmrw. But issue is simply I have a warp/ bow in the top. IE if I put a straight edge across the worktop2 width I have 5mm gap in middle. So its concave. Trying to biscuit joint the end of this, to the top1 (sink worktop) side.. I'd say isn't possible (unless massive force/ a huge weight is applied which I just don't have). Trying to do a 5mm offset with 3/4" softwood is hard enough.. but 3x this width, hardwood?

 

If the worktop is really concave to that extent could it be a manufacturing defect? 

 

A carefully worded email with accompanying picture to the supplier, citing the fact one out of two is OK, would I have thought seen a replacement delivered to your door FOC. 

[PeterW]

13 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

If the worktop is really concave to that extent could it be a manufacturing defect? 

 

A carefully worded email with accompanying picture to the supplier, citing the fact one out of two is OK, would I have thought seen a replacement delivered to your door FOC. 

 

I doubt it is. 2.5mm over 600mm is probably showing as -+/-5mm so within tolerance for solid wood. At £30 a unit I don’t think Homebase will be interested. 

[Onoff]

1 minute ago, PeterW said:

 

I doubt it is. 2.5mm over 600mm is probably showing as -+/-5mm so within tolerance for solid wood. At £30 a unit I don’t think Homebase will be interested. 

 

Could it be that Osmo'ing the top "sealed" it. If the underside is then open to moisture in the air could that then expand and bow the top?

[zoothorn]

Hi chaps- actually I oiled under, & back edge only (other was doing one in place x 3). But warp was already in prior to oiling: it happened as soon as I cut across it, almost like a tension thing, the conditions at the time were not the very moist last few days. Mfr won't be interested now Ive cut the top in 2 places.

 

Its my fault again, I should not have gone for wood tops.. but I thought chipboard might be even less stable, plus the fact of those horrible expensive join templates etc.. just for one join I'll ever do was prohibitive.

 

I was thinking maybe bin this top (alot of work gone into it), & try top3 which was for cooker area.. but whose to say it won't bow the the same or worse? I can't scrap top1 & start again.. the ammount of time Ive put into it you wouldn't believe, so many marks/ scribbles/ rub-outs covering the underside like a kids wall. If I try to force top2 & try to join, I might ruin top1 if the biscuits get set in etc. I couldn't cope with ruining top1.. I'm close to not coping with this job as it is.

[Triassic]

If it’s a wooden block Work top, why not sand the bowed area down and re-oil the sanded area once finished.

[PeterW]

51 minutes ago, Triassic said:

If it’s a wooden block Work top, why not sand the bowed area down and re-oil the sanded area once finished.

 

That is essentially what I have ended up doing. In a couple of places there are ripples in the individual blocks that make up the complete surface and it looks like it’s been hand finished rather than machined to a consistent thickness. I’ve done both an end butt joint and a couple of L joints so I’ve either biscuit jointed or glued and plated the joints - or both ! 

 

@zoothorn don’t throw out what you have done so far as it’s fine - I think you will be surprised how much you can pull the surface down with some screws. Have you got a decent bit of 4x2 or something that you know is flat to try and straighten the joint end to begin with..??

[zoothorn]

Morning Triassic- good suggestion, but this job would be -the- biggest ballache with what I have, a small makita hand-held sander. I'd think with a belt sander it would be a breeze. Tbh its the one job I'm trying as hard as to avoid even 2mm proud.. dust another massive pita/ no extractor thingy really & makes me very very cross.

 

I've managed to press maybe 1-2mm out overnight clamping the sod hard against the bow.. good result.. maybe if I catch it now it might behave. Urgh. this is the most stressful part of the fkn job. I need codeine to cope. Ive got wine in case it goes tlts up by elevensies. Then I shall just sleep.

[PeterW]

I’ve sanded around 12m of this stuff with a 6” Makita DA with just the normal catch bag on it and it’s fine - work up from 60/80 to 120 and 240 but keep the speed down to start with. 

 

The epoxy filler they use in knots and gaps (black when you start) goes grey when you sand it but as soon as you oil it the black colour returns. 

 

If you do need to fill any gaps, keep the sanding residue from the sander. Mix with a bit of waterproof PVA and it soon blends in when you sand it back. 

 

 

[zoothorn]

This is what Im up against

[PeterW]

Lean on the front edge and get it level then put 4 or 5 screws along the edge into the frame. 

 

Then put some weight across the back edge which will now have kicked up by probably 6-8mm and just leave it alone and go find something else to do for a day. It will start to settle back down I expect. 

[zoothorn]

Anyway it has to be done, even if it takes me all day using an elephant.. no choice. If it has to be sanded hugely then that's the only way I guess. but before that, its the meeting of the biscuits I'm most concerned about, it -has- to be pulled down in order to meet.. somehow. If they don't meet then its curtains & maybe I've ruined top1 too (if its in situ/ fixed in with sealant around 2 back edges then stripping the glue out/ re-rebating without the surface below it to rest the cutter on.. urgh cant think of it).

 

So I 1st have to fix in top1. Ive left a 5mm gap (believe me around here every 1 of the 5mm may well be needed), shims ready.. but the sealant seems to be a thin bead.. Im gonna need a ton of it to fill this 5mm gap. What's the advice here?

[PeterW]

Biscuits aren’t the only option - yes they will make it stronger but a ply plate works just as well.